How much to teach???

[AdrenalineJunky]

Okay, so I've picked up a couple of friends who want to train with me. At first these guys (actually, one's a girl. . .er, woman) started training for the physical aspects alone, ie getting into shape. But now they're starting to show an interest in the Muay Thai part of my training. So, I've told them about the class, and really recommenced that they come with me, and they proly will sooner or later, but right now they are comfortable training with me.

I've been doing MT for over ten years, and, while don't have any teaching credentials, nor have I fought professionally, I think that I could give them a solid foundation of basics, thus boosting their confidence enough to get them to come and train with my current instructor.

However, some "street" stuff has been coming up (mostly from my girl friend re: defense against male attackers) questions and whatnot, and I'm wondering how to address this part of it. I did wrestling in 5th-12th grade, MT, Aikido, and "Copkido" seminars while working as a bouncer, and I've been in several altercations from all directions some involving various weapons, etc. I've suggested a women's self-defense class, but I know she won't go.

So what should I do? She is what--any guy with eyes--you'd call a knock-out (no pun intended, well maybe) and whenever and wherever we go out, guys are always bothering her. My fear is that if I show her some stuff, rather than being afraid/alert and getting the hell out of a bad situation, she'll be confident/less afraid and, therefore, some of the useful instincts fear instills will go away, leaving her more prone to get caught in a bad situation.

Sorry about the long post, but I'm working out with her tonight and I have a feeling this will come up. There seems to be a lot of MA instructors here, as well as advanced students who have taught, so what do you think? Thanks in advance.

AJ

 

[Trent]

I've come across this situation numerous times and have a similar situation pending. What I do is show them some basics (i.e., easy to execute, high damage, high probablity) techniques-- elbows, headbutt, knees, and how to apply them. However, a definite caveat must be provided with the instruction. "This is last chance, fight because you can't run material," and demonstrated why directly.

Unfortunately the only way to do it is train them, then show them it is not for fighting superior opponents as the vast majority of women are greatly outmuscled, under experienced, lack hormonal advantages and simply are not equipped to handle real male aggression in a direct physical encounter. The only way to convince them I've discovered is after I show them is to ramp it up and spar with them, but only at a level which they can't quite handle as I don't wish to hurt them or crush them mentally, quite the opposite; it is for building them up and promoting self-confidence after all. After that, break it down again and more applications and drilling to put everything in proper perspective again. You will also find a greater mental committment to training with the more realistic attitude.

Please understand that while the previous appears unkind, there are many layers of context and subtle communication going on to properly couch what is being provided in a friendly, but realistic manner.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Thanks for your response. Also, I'm wondering, from the Instructors on this board, if it's appropriate from an instructors perspective to be teaching a "bit more" than the basics? For example, my MT instructor took a class through Fairtex specifically teaching him how to address students and work with them, ya know different personality types and all. I take MA seriously, and I don't want to be "the guy" who goes around showing folks how to beat people up.
AJ

 

[The Kai]

Try to teach awareness drills and threat recognition drills so to head off the conflict. When you teach the physical explain that this is the last chance stuff there are no thunder punchs that will save them (the strongest of us can be dropped by a tiny little germ!)

 

[c2kenpo]

Aj,

A reason she may be showing some interest in self-defense is something in the past or something has already made her feel uncomfortable in a situation.
First the question is what does she really want to learn?
If you want to go beyond "basics" , why bother. Keep it simple first and start showing where the "basics" can be applied.
When I did a Kickboxing class for Health(not combat training) I always showed where the cardio lession could be used as a self-defense technique.
Now we never actually "worked" the technique but we trained it to repetiative training (i.e Tae-bo), after a while the students could not only rember the combos I showed them but also could perform them with vigor and power.

Simple strikes and block and then my favorites self-defense basic. RUN.
There is nothing wrong with moving past the basics, but if you dont "feel" qualified to teach strongly suggest a more structured class.
Hope this helps.
David Gunzburg

 

[Phoenix44]

I've been teaching in a dojo for years. I'd never teach "self-defense" informally. Maybe because I live in the lawsuit capital of the universe, I don't know.

Firstly, I like the fact that my students go to classes with the other instructors, too. It gives everybody perspective. Secondly, what if my informal training emboldened my informal students, and they got hurt because of it? I'd feel terrible, and I could be held liable. Finally, for those who think Tae Bo or cardio-kickboxing is good preparation for self-defense, I'd say read what C2Kenpo says on every one of his posts:

"Chance favors the prepared mind."

Taebo-istas may know how to form a punch, but they do not have a prepared mind.

 

[Shogun]

Maybe because I live in the lawsuit capital of the universe, I don't know.

Where do you live?

Just curious, but couldnt someone fill out waivers/disclaimers just like a dojo for informal training? just curious..

 

[MichiganTKD]

I don't like teaching strictly self defense classes for the simple reason that self defense techniques without the solid foundation of basics are useless. In other words, I can teach headbutts, groinstrikes, breaking a wristhold etc. But unless you learn balance, good stance, twisting, and the self defense mindset, those techniques will not do you much good.. It's like giving a handgun to someone without teaching them how to use it properly. They're just as likely to injure themselves as an attacker.
Then what happens is that they try to use these techniques, fail, and then complain that Tae Kwon Do (or whatever) doesn't work.

 

[loki09789]

Educate yourself on the local use of force laws and then set up scenarios that seem likely to come up for your friends and run them through. After you 'stop play' review the responses in regards to that legal understanding.

I wouldn't worry about them/her becoming over confident and ignoring her natural instincts if you teach from the perspective of applying those good vibrations...

Using the basics foundation you have already applied, let the repetition of those basics in the applications develop the timing, fluidity and other athletic principles as you go.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well, my take on this is that if they find them selves trading blows with an assailant, they have seriously errored somewhere along the line. Teach them about the buddy system, teach them not to allow themselves to be led in to unfavorable predicaments, teach them that logic isn't a strange Vulcan custom. Lots of people avoid attacks, and here is why...
Sean

 

[Shogun]

Also, White light. new studies have shown that white light signifigantly reduces attacks.

 

[The Kai]

I don't like teaching strictly self defense classes for the simple reason that self defense techniques without the solid foundation of basics are useless. .

I have to agree, when people come into a short time seld defnse class what are they learning. Look at how long it takes a person to apply his punchs or kicks in a sparring situation. Or how many times do you see a fighter with a great defense ?(really the mark of a great fighter). And we practice several times a week for years. That cannot be duplicated in a couple of self defense sessioons, rather teach them to run......

 

[OC Kid]

Send them to a reg school. I also live in the Sue happy capital of the world. If they do something hurt someone else then they both I mean both parties can come after you and probably will. I mean your friend and the guys they'll beat up.
Thats why I will not do that.
Its sad I know but when you got a secure job and a wife a 3 kids a house you have to becareful. They should come first.

 

[Phoenix44]

Just curious, but couldnt someone fill out waivers/disclaimers just like a dojo for informal training? just curious..

Of course...but that's not training "informally" anymore. What about insurance for someone getting injured during your lessons?

 

[MichiganTKD]

Something else.

When someone joins my class, for however long, it gives me a chance to get to know them, understand their motivations a little bit. You start to understand why they may be practicing and what they hope to get out of it. Someone looking to get revenge on someone or full of anger probably isn't going to last long.
When someone takes a self defense class, especially one that lasts only a short time, they get none of that. The Instructor has no time to get to know them, understand what they want, and know their mind. It is simply a crash course in basic techniques that may or may not work. Especially in a real situation, you have a tendency to freeze out of nervousness and forget what you learned.
A regular class helps you understand and conquer this nervousness through practice and training. This can definitely carry over into real life, not just in self defense situations.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

My thanks to everyone for their responses. It is not easy to decide what to show to whom. On the one hand, I feel like, if they want to learn, go to a class, pick it up from the beginning the way I did. On the other hand, I've seen a couple weeks of solid training with my buddy--who trains in kempo and couldn't throw a punch or a round kick to save his life--grasp the fundamentals needed to make him a really good fighter (he just got his third stripe as a brown belt--woohoo!). The people I train with are friends I've known for years. It's not like a class where people I don't know walk in. Now, where Angela is concerned, I have decided to show her some of the SD techs I know. There's just a lot of sleaze bags out there and I'd rather she know some of this stuff, than not know it. And the stuff I'll show her works, I know from years of experience. So, thanks for the ideas on scenario setups.

AJ