JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
For me at this point practicing the internal arts I find less is more and more is less paradox. I am finding the forms are not the core practice but the often neglected stillness in just standing preperation(wuji)
How long before you started "getting it"?
- Thread starter Koshou911
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kidswarrior
Senior Master
I don't really see this as getting it vs. not getting it (yet). As I think back, there were times when the Aha! light bulb went on...After about six months, then at five years, and again at 12 years.
I think of this as an upward spiral, where, after going 360 degrees -- or completely around -- I reached a new end/starting point. Of course, the new beginning after five years wasn't starting from the same place as the first day, and the journey from 5-12 was similar to, but spiraling upward from, the first stage. And of course, same for the end point/new starting point after 12 years.
So I *got it* in the lower/mid color belt range, and again at 1st black, then again at 2nd/3rd black. Won't know when the next spiral might be completed until after the fact.
I think of this as an upward spiral, where, after going 360 degrees -- or completely around -- I reached a new end/starting point. Of course, the new beginning after five years wasn't starting from the same place as the first day, and the journey from 5-12 was similar to, but spiraling upward from, the first stage. And of course, same for the end point/new starting point after 12 years.
So I *got it* in the lower/mid color belt range, and again at 1st black, then again at 2nd/3rd black. Won't know when the next spiral might be completed until after the fact.
- Thread Starter
- #23
well I guess when I say "getting it" it could mean a lot of things.
for me it was very very frustrating at the beginning and being out of shape (still am) really added to the difficultly of doing many of the techniques.
So I just started taking more and more classes, almost always walking out of class sore.
But now when I say I am starting to get it (key word being "starting") I have learned that repetition is key and I know have the mind set that one day I will "get it"....ok maybe not but I definately feel I am on the right path.
for me it was very very frustrating at the beginning and being out of shape (still am) really added to the difficultly of doing many of the techniques.
So I just started taking more and more classes, almost always walking out of class sore.
But now when I say I am starting to get it (key word being "starting") I have learned that repetition is key and I know have the mind set that one day I will "get it"....ok maybe not but I definately feel I am on the right path.
After 20 years in Chinese kung fu, I thought I was getting it, I was invincible, my teachers were in trouble.....then, I started doing Yang tai chi with my kung fu....now 12 years later, what just happened?!!!! Now, where are the gaps, why is the jing going that way, wow my waist hurts, how come my three masters still laugh at me, and after 32 years and not getting younger, do I surrender to the fact I am just now really getting it, and then I am told to relax more!!! Jeez, that makes me tense!! Then, my three teachers tell me after all these years, there is yet another way of breathing....oh, great!!! Then, am I becoming more internal, or are those just the shakes........can somebody help me????? After 32 years, I have decided my masters are still better, smarter, and laughing at me even more!! The bastards....with respect!!!
- Thread Starter
- #25
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding what I am trying to say. Its my fault as I dont know how to express what I mean in any other way.
I am by no means saying that I am ready for my black belt. For me everything was very difficult, very frustrating and going to class only made me feel like more of a slow learner. Even the most basic techniques took me at least twice as long (some times much longer) to learn. One thing I did have going for me is that my will power was strong enough to keep me going to classes, then taking up more classes a week to try to improve.
Now that I am a year in, I feel that I can see more of the mechanics and things come to me much quicker than before.
When you learn to play golf and your instructor drills into you the importance of keeping your arm straight and letting the wrist break naturally, after a while you get this concept, but it doesnt mean that you are going after Tiger at a tournament.....
All I was trying to say is that after a year I am starting to get the concepts and why we do things the way we do. Some people get that far in the first week, for me it was a year and to me that was a milestone....
I am by no means saying that I am ready for my black belt. For me everything was very difficult, very frustrating and going to class only made me feel like more of a slow learner. Even the most basic techniques took me at least twice as long (some times much longer) to learn. One thing I did have going for me is that my will power was strong enough to keep me going to classes, then taking up more classes a week to try to improve.
Now that I am a year in, I feel that I can see more of the mechanics and things come to me much quicker than before.
When you learn to play golf and your instructor drills into you the importance of keeping your arm straight and letting the wrist break naturally, after a while you get this concept, but it doesnt mean that you are going after Tiger at a tournament.....
All I was trying to say is that after a year I am starting to get the concepts and why we do things the way we do. Some people get that far in the first week, for me it was a year and to me that was a milestone....
ChingChuan
Blue Belt
Am I the only one who thinks she's got it? I'm not saying that I'm 'a master of my art' - certainly not! I''ve only been training for two-and-a-half year.
It took me about half a year before I 'got it'. At first, I was a true 'beginner'. I just imitated the movements and I could do some practical applications, but everything was too new, too strange for me to really 'understand'. I needed time to get used to the stances, the movements - to me, the art wasn't really 'logical' or something.
But the more I trained, the more I started to see the logic. When my instructor pointed out such things, it was like an 'aha erlebnis' instead of 'well, if he says it, it must be true'. You start to see that some techniques really fit into each other, you start to see more opportunities.
However, the fact that I sometimes see it, doesn't mean that I can do it - I could perform a technique like my instructor does, that requires more experience and more insight.
But now I've got this general idea of what I'm doing. It doesn't feel 'strange' anymore to do a pasang or a jurus and I can now put more intent into my movements. When I learn a new technique, I can sort of 'fit' it into the things I already know - it isn't completely new, because it all belongs together.
Of course, afterwards you realize that you still didn't get it for another few months - but I think it's like that with every learning process. When I studied biology in highschool, I didn't know that there was so much more to know, because you can only handle one thing at a time. Still, I thought I was getting it, I thought I sort of understood what it was about. (I didn't think I knew everything - I thought I knew the essentials).
Now I'm studying medicine, I realised how little I actually knew back then. There is so much more to learn about the body than just those few snippets they teach in high school! But that doesn't mean that I didn't know anything - the things I learnt then, the fundementals that I was taught, are the foundation for the things I'm going to learn in the next years. Without this knowledge, this 'getting it', I wouldn't be studying medicine now...
So, even if there are still loads of things to learn about your art, I think you shouldn't dismiss the things you already know. Many of the people posting in this thread are practising their arts longer than me, sometimes even longer than I've lived - do you really expect me to believe that you still don't get it?
It took me about half a year before I 'got it'. At first, I was a true 'beginner'. I just imitated the movements and I could do some practical applications, but everything was too new, too strange for me to really 'understand'. I needed time to get used to the stances, the movements - to me, the art wasn't really 'logical' or something.
But the more I trained, the more I started to see the logic. When my instructor pointed out such things, it was like an 'aha erlebnis' instead of 'well, if he says it, it must be true'. You start to see that some techniques really fit into each other, you start to see more opportunities.
However, the fact that I sometimes see it, doesn't mean that I can do it - I could perform a technique like my instructor does, that requires more experience and more insight.
But now I've got this general idea of what I'm doing. It doesn't feel 'strange' anymore to do a pasang or a jurus and I can now put more intent into my movements. When I learn a new technique, I can sort of 'fit' it into the things I already know - it isn't completely new, because it all belongs together.
Of course, afterwards you realize that you still didn't get it for another few months - but I think it's like that with every learning process. When I studied biology in highschool, I didn't know that there was so much more to know, because you can only handle one thing at a time. Still, I thought I was getting it, I thought I sort of understood what it was about. (I didn't think I knew everything - I thought I knew the essentials).
Now I'm studying medicine, I realised how little I actually knew back then. There is so much more to learn about the body than just those few snippets they teach in high school! But that doesn't mean that I didn't know anything - the things I learnt then, the fundementals that I was taught, are the foundation for the things I'm going to learn in the next years. Without this knowledge, this 'getting it', I wouldn't be studying medicine now...
So, even if there are still loads of things to learn about your art, I think you shouldn't dismiss the things you already know. Many of the people posting in this thread are practising their arts longer than me, sometimes even longer than I've lived - do you really expect me to believe that you still don't get it?
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It wasn't until I got my ikkyu when what I thought of as the big light bulb went off.
Now that I'm a Nidan I realize how full of **** I was then. It's been said before, but bears repeating, the more I learn it becomes evident how little I know.
Now that I'm a Nidan I realize how full of **** I was then. It's been said before, but bears repeating, the more I learn it becomes evident how little I know.
There are different stages and levels of "getting it" at different points in training. (Others have said this, as well.)
After several months, things start to come together and suddenly you "get" how some things work. You actually evade or block, or put a combination together. Then, further along, you see the connections in a form... and then you can apply them in fighting. And still further, you recognize a few common points across your system... and so on.
Some of these light bulb moments are predictable, based on how much you train. Some are not, and they simply happen when the combination of circumstances, your training, and everything else comes together the right way. Remembering these moments (or anticipating them) is what keeps you training when you don't "get it."
After several months, things start to come together and suddenly you "get" how some things work. You actually evade or block, or put a combination together. Then, further along, you see the connections in a form... and then you can apply them in fighting. And still further, you recognize a few common points across your system... and so on.
Some of these light bulb moments are predictable, based on how much you train. Some are not, and they simply happen when the combination of circumstances, your training, and everything else comes together the right way. Remembering these moments (or anticipating them) is what keeps you training when you don't "get it."
- Thread Starter
- #29
kidswarrior
Senior Master
As I reread the thread, don't really see anyone's response as dismissing your accomplishment(s) or experience. You might have felt that way, but don't think anyone intended it.
For my part, was just trying to say that: Yes, it sounds like you did reach a point where some things came together. A great feeling, and I can recall my own such times vividly. But ime the second time was even better, involving a deeper and broader understanding. And the third time, better yet. So I was trying to be encouraging, not discouraging.
Fuzzy Foot
Yellow Belt
Let me respond simply as I can on this. It is a given that everyone learns at a different rate and sees and absorbs things differently according to individual physical ability and intelligence. How much time you spend practicing is of course part of the equation as is thinking about and visualizing what you are doing and trying to accomplish. That said, the mechanics of technique may be learned IMO quite rapidly, compared to what I think of, when you say "getting it". In my years of teaching (37 now) "getting it" means having a FEEL or INSTINCT for correct technique, concepts, and applications which begins to come after many years of diligent practice and intellectual study. You'll know it because the light bulb turns on about something your teacher told you but you just took their word for until now, even though you performed the mechanics (usually)thousands of times. You now "get it". Many do not stay with MA long enough to ever get to this point. If I had to put a time on it, I'd say generally this STARTS to happen around the 8-10 year mark. But again it varies.
