How do you define overkill?

[Ironbear24]

I've seen many self defense techniques where someone simply squeezes your hand and you respond with essentially a fatality from mortal kombat. I brought this up in class before and I get a very master ken response.

The example here is someone pushes you and your trap the arms and then hip throw them to the floor, then take their arm and break it with your knee by dropping your weight on the elbow as you hold the arm up. Tiger palm the groin, then gouge the eye and pull it out, then stomp the groin and step away in your stance.

Idk why you step away in your stance. I guess its incase they get back up after all that.

 

[MAfreak]

don't forget to rip off his throat and push it in his ahole. and all he wanted was to push you away from the falling anvil...

 

[jks9199]

"Overkill" is excessive force. It's anything done that is foreseeably likely to do an injury to your opponent that is not justifiable and proportional to the attack. It's continuing to do harm unto a defenseless person, or attacking the person who is now running away.

Lots of people teach combinations and technique sequences that are overkill, and rely on having the assailant stand there like a dummy. A lot of the American Kenpo techniques I've seen extend to overkill --- but they have the caveat that you're supposed to be able to stop in the middle if appropriate. And it's not at all limited to Kenpo... Heck, we've got some form sequences that are a tad excessive. (Like trapping a kick, holding the leg, rolling over the leg and spine and stomping the skull...) The big key to me is to at least make some effort to recognize that a real attacker isn't going to sit there and let you do all that to him... Doesn't mean you don't do a form "perfectly" -- but the actual instruction should recognize that you probably won't really spin all the way around before doing the stomp, etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

don't forget to rip off his throat and push it in his ahole. and all he wanted was to push you away from the falling anvil...

And restomp the groin.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've seen many self defense techniques where someone simply squeezes your hand and you respond with essentially a fatality from mortal kombat. I brought this up in class before and I get a very master ken response.

The example here is someone pushes you and your trap the arms and then hip throw them to the floor, then take their arm and break it with your knee by dropping your weight on the elbow as you hold the arm up. Tiger palm the groin, then gouge the eye and pull it out, then stomp the groin and step away in your stance.

Idk why you step away in your stance. I guess its incase they get back up after all that.

The response must be relevant to the danger of the attack. In most situations, a push should get a controlling response, not a beat-down. That doesn't make it bad to practice these extended responses, because sometimes a push is part of something larger. However, I wouldn't want to train that sort of thing often, since your training is going to determine your brain's response when you're under the stress of an attack.

And the stepping away is to build the habit of never ending within reach, unless you are still controlling them through a lock. It's part of training yourself to overall good habits.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Generally, I define overkill as any kenpo technique. Alternatively, I define Kenpo as the art of overkill techniques.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Overkill" is excessive force. It's anything done that is foreseeably likely to do an injury to your opponent that is not justifiable and proportional to the attack. It's continuing to do harm unto a defenseless person, or attacking the person who is now running away.

Lots of people teach combinations and technique sequences that are overkill, and rely on having the assailant stand there like a dummy. A lot of the American Kenpo techniques I've seen extend to overkill --- but they have the caveat that you're supposed to be able to stop in the middle if appropriate. And it's not at all limited to Kenpo... Heck, we've got some form sequences that are a tad excessive. (Like trapping a kick, holding the leg, rolling over the leg and spine and stomping the skull...) The big key to me is to at least make some effort to recognize that a real attacker isn't going to sit there and let you do all that to him... Doesn't mean you don't do a form "perfectly" -- but the actual instruction should recognize that you probably won't really spin all the way around before doing the stomp, etc.

While I'm not a fan of the "supposed to be able to stop" approach (again, how you train is likely how you'll respond), I think there's a very good reason for these extended responses. When you do these, you're learning a whole range of transitions between techniques. If something fails in the street, you're likely to have something (probably from a different extended response) that shows up as a recognizable "next move" transition.

 

[kehcorpz]

I
The example here is someone pushes you and your trap the arms and then hip throw them to the floor, then take their arm and break it with your knee by dropping your weight on the elbow as you hold the arm up. Tiger palm the groin, then gouge the eye and pull it out, then stomp the groin and step away in your stance.

What's wrong with that? Nobody forced him to push you.

If you play with fire you get burnt.

But I wouldn't do tiger palm to the groin. Too unhygienic imo.

 

[Ironbear24]

And restomp the groin.

Always.

 

[Paul_D]

I've seen many self defense techniques where someone simply squeezes your hand and you respond with essentially a fatality from mortal kombat. I brought this up in class before and I get a very master ken response.

The example here is someone pushes you and your trap the arms and then hip throw them to the floor, then take their arm and break it with your knee by dropping your weight on the elbow as you hold the arm up. Tiger palm the groin, then gouge the eye and pull it out, then stomp the groin and step away in your stance.

Idk why you step away in your stance. I guess its incase they get back up after all that.

If the first action (hip throw) has the desired effect, then you do you best Usain Bolt impression. If (for whatever reasons) that one techqniue was not sufficient, further follow up techniques may be required.

Think of it like a karate kata, if the first movement achieves the desired effect, you don't stay and finish the rest of your kata before you leave just because you normally practice the whole kata in class.

 

[drop bear]

You kinda should fight to a safe position. Not only will you be at less risk but your stuff is more likley to work.

Then you can decide if you want to be reasonable or street deadly.

Getting that safe position is worth more than all the tiger claws in the world.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Because, timing is everything, this is a timing issue, and overkill would be anything that takes you off task. If you have tasked your self to be a tough guy that nobody messes with, you still have to worry, because, you can create a situation where people go out of their way to mess with you.

 

[Red Sun]

I recently declared myself a martial arts grandmaster (plz buy my ebooks), and i've decided that today i'm going to give you peasants a free lesson!

DEFENSE AGAINST A "JAB":
If someone violently assaults you with a left jab, respond by ducking and driving into the monsters chest/stomach with your left shoulder, grab it around the waist and lift it up into the air - Tilt it sideways, slam the fiend to the ground as hard as possible. Now, pull out your Thug-Ra-Te special edition combat machete and heroically attack the C1 pressure point (this APPEARS to be a swift beheading, but is actually a high level martial arts technique.)
REMEMBER: ALWAYS RUN AWAY FROM A STREET FIGHT.
I am not liable for anything.

-Your future Sensei, when you buy my Ebooks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If the first action (hip throw) has the desired effect, then you do you best Usain Bolt impression. If (for whatever reasons) that one techqniue was not sufficient, further follow up techniques may be required.

Think of it like a karate kata, if the first movement achieves the desired effect, you don't stay and finish the rest of your kata before you leave just because you normally practice the whole kata in class.

Great, Paul. Now you have me imagining someone doing one of those very long kata, carefully stepping around the unconscious guy they put down 14 moves ago.