How do people do 540 roundhouse kicks?

[Danny T]

it wasn't an analogy, analogies are comparing two thing and usually pointing out the commonalities, as you went comparing anything it was just an anecdote

I expressed what I do, have done, and will continue to do. You wanted know why I told you. You don't understand...that's okay. I'm good with it. You seem to want to me to prove to you specifically something or something you agree with. I'm not here to argue but to either discuss or simply give an opinion or idea. If you don't agree or understand it's all good.

 

[jobo]

I expressed what I do, have done, and will continue to do. You wanted know why I told you. You don't understand...that's okay. I'm good with it. You seem to want to me to prove to you specifically something or something you agree with. I'm not here to argue but to either discuss or simply give an opinion or idea. If you don't agree or understand it's all good.

well no, what id like for you to do is stop spreading illl researched nonsense, but i have no authority to make you do so and as previously discussed you have both a moral and constitutional right to not only be ill informed but to spread that around others , a right you exercise with great enthusiasm.

so all i can do is seek to engage in the probably forlorn hope that once you realise you cant express your views in any logical way, that it may just occur to you that is because they arnt logical

 

[_Simon_]

well that rely is even more hysterical, im not getting sucked into a situation where i am being equally belligerent as yourself

so quite simply if you believe people expressing different opinions to yourself breach forum guideline please feel free to report my posts and let the moderators decided

up until they ban all opinions but Simmons il carry on expressing my views in as a respectful and cogent manner as a i can muster

Okay brother, very good. That's unfortunate that you can't or are unwilling to see what I'm saying (which is not in fact saying "you shouldn't express your opinion"). People seem to think free speech means treating people however they want, and hide behind the "that's my opinion I'm entitled to it" as a cover to avoid any responsibility whatsoever.

Very good. All the best and wish you well always mate.

 

[jobo]

Okay brother, very good. That's unfortunate that you can't or are unwilling to see what I'm saying (which is not in fact saying "you shouldn't express your opinion"). People seem to think free speech means treating people however they want, and hide behind the "that's my opinion I'm entitled to it" as a cover to avoid any responsibility whatsoever.

Very good. All the best and wish you well always mate.

im totally at a loss what your getting so work up about, i mean really

the totality of the issue is that we disagree on how functional training should be in order to be useful, its an interesting but in the scheme of things extremely unimportant point,

we both think we are correct. but there we veer apart im attempting to give a reasoned explanation of my views, your saying that anyone disagreeing with you is disrespectful to you as a person and then launching personal attacks

this is very much the modern world so you are far from alone, even o here is extremely common for any exchange of ideas to end in acrimony and a closed thread, because people cant stop themselves from descending into personal attacks if they run out of logic


so be clear, from our exchanges on here, i respect you as a person, you are however deeply ill inform on this topic, but despite this aberration i still think your a really great guy

so where does that leave us ? if you are incapable of telling the difference between someone disagreeing with you and someone disrespecting you, it makes any interaction problematic, and i have no interest in joining you in a state of complete over reaction to someone disagreeing with me

 

[_Simon_]

I appreciate your response, truly.

the totality of the issue is that we disagree on how functional training should be in order to be useful, its an interesting but in the scheme of things extremely unimportant point,

That was part of the discussion yes, not the totality of it. What I was talking about was the disrespecting of other peoples' training because you personally don't see it as valid.

we both think we are correct. but there we veer apart im attempting to give a reasoned explanation of my views, your saying that anyone disagreeing with you is disrespectful to you as a person and then launching personal attacks

Again, no. I think that's the beautiful thing about forums. That there ARE so many great ideas exchanges, views expressed, different ways of training we share. Disagreements yes, but usually those are within the context of someone's training and they often happen because something is simply not applicable to them and their system. Not always, but often.

@jobo you were indeed the one launching personal attacks. I was heavily enquiring into your attitude towards those who don't train like you or who don't see it how you see it.

Calling me a "snowflake"? You were under the impression that I was an oversensitive little butterfly getting upset because of disagreement. No. I was pointing out your approach to other peoples' way of training and that it's okay that people are training things differently, and here's the important part, if it works for them. It's cool if you don't agree with it, I'm not telling you to fall in line or 'be agreeable and accept everything'.

so be clear, from our exchanges on here, i respect you as a person, you are however deeply ill inform on this topic, but despite this aberration i still think your a really great guy

That's kind of you to say, appreciate it.

I get it, you're a practical-minded guy (or sinister mysterious clown, who knows!). For you, something has to match or come close to it in movement patterns and has to be specific in nature to be of value in improving a skill or quality. That's great, and a really helpful orientation as absolutely it can cut through alot of fluff.

I am saying that is not the only approach to training qualities that maybe are not so measurable. You are disregarding this, downright calling them exercises pointless because you're not allowing yourself to see how they could be valuable.

This is not a case of just blindly following some old tradition of a martial arts master and blindly taking their word for it.

For example there is sooo much within Chinese martial arts that I just do not understand. Does that make it pointless? Not valuable? Illogical? No, not at all, it means that I currently don't understand it. Maybe some stuff can be all that. Absolutely. But some stuff works for that system and that person. It doesn't need a sports science or biomechanical peer-reviewed paper.

Above you even said "what id like for you to do is stop spreading illl researched nonsense". Again, it's a training method that you perhaps don't understand, and don't see how applicable it is to a certain goal. You don't have to understand it, that's cool to not, you don't have to take it on in any way. Danny has gotten a great deal out of that style of training. Again, it's fine.

But to trash talk the method and basically say he's ill informed? THIS is what I'm getting at.

so where does that leave us ? if you are incapable of telling the difference between someone disagreeing with you and someone disrespecting you, it makes any interaction problematic, and i have no interest in joining you in a state of complete over reaction to someone disagreeing with me

Yes, that interaction would be problematic, if that were the case. But it's not. I'm not actually disagreeing with you! That's the funny thing here! I actually agree that getting as close as possible to practicing a certain skillset in terms of specificity is gold in terms of improving that particular skillset, and I appreciate that viewpoint and method.

I see where you're coming, I do.

All I'm saying is that there are OTHER methods which help improve more nonlinear qualities that can't be measured (fighting spirit, perseverance, subjective tolerance to pain and discomfort), as WELL as qualities which may be measurable (VO2 max, cardiorespiratory functioning, strength, distance, timing).

Doing say a 1000 kicks actually I can see can be helpful for many things, not only spirit and determination, but muscular endurance, cardio, working on keeping your posture and balance even when exhausted etc...

Of course, the cons can be that your technique deteriorates after a certain amount. So IF the goal was improving technique, that may not be the best option for it. It all depends on if the practice/method aligns with the goal. If you project a different end goal onto a method/exercise, of course it's going to seem pointless.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If not all good. My martial arts journey has taught me to respect others, even if they're on different paths and train in different ways that work for them. It has not taught me to belittle other people and their methods because I don't see the validity. I want to champion and bring out the best in people. No I don't mean just being overly agreeable and accepting everything everyone writes. There is absolutely a time and a place to question things, a very important practice.

This is not about me or someone being "disagreed with". I think that's healthy to have in an open forum. I've spent a great portion of time in writing all this to clarify where I'm coming from, you're under no obligation at all to reply if you don't want to. But if you do I look forward to it.

 

[jobo]

I appreciate your response, truly.



That was part of the discussion yes, not the totality of it. What I was talking about was the disrespecting of other peoples' training because you personally don't see it as valid.



Again, no. I think that's the beautiful thing about forums. That there ARE so many great ideas exchanges, views expressed, different ways of training we share. Disagreements yes, but usually those are within the context of someone's training and they often happen because something is simply not applicable to them and their system. Not always, but often.

@jobo you were indeed the one launching personal attacks. I was heavily enquiring into your attitude towards those who don't train like you or who don't see it how you see it.

Calling me a "snowflake"? You were under the impression that I was an oversensitive little butterfly getting upset because of disagreement. No. I was pointing out your approach to other peoples' way of training and that it's okay that people are training things differently, and here's the important part, if it works for them. It's cool if you don't agree with it, I'm not telling you to fall in line or 'be agreeable and accept everything'.




That's kind of you to say, appreciate it.

I get it, you're a practical-minded guy. For you, something has to match or come close to it in movement patterns and has to be specific in nature to be of value in improving a skill or quality. That's great, and a really helpful orientation as absolutely it can cut through alot of fluff.

I am saying that is not the only approach to training qualities that maybe are not so measurable. You are disregarding this, downright calling them exercises pointless because you're not allowing yourself to see how they could be valuable.

This is not a case of just blindly following some old tradition of a martial arts master and blindly taking their word for it.

For example there is sooo much within Chinese martial arts that I just do not understand. Does that make it pointless? Not valuable? Illogical? No, not at all, it means that I currently don't understand it. Maybe some stuff can be all that. Absolutely. But some stuff works for that system and that person. It doesn't need a sports science or biomechanical peer-reviewed paper.

Above you even said "what id like for you to do is stop spreading illl researched nonsense". Again, it's a training method that you perhaps don't understand, and don't see how applicable it is to a certain goal. You don't have to understand it, that's cool to not, you don't have to take it on in any way. Danny has gotten a great deal out of that style of training. Again, it's fine.

But to trash talk the method and basically say he's ill informed? THIS is what I'm getting at.



Yes, that interaction would be problematic, if that were the case. But it's not. I'm not actually disagreeing with you! That's the funny thing here! I actually agree that getting as close as possible to practicing a certain skillset in terms of specificity is gold in terms of improving that particular skillset, and I appreciate that viewpoint and method.

I see where you're coming, I do.

All I'm saying is that there are OTHER methods which help improve more nonlinear qualities that can't be measured (fighting spirit, perseverance, subjective tolerance to pain and discomfort), as WELL as qualities which may be measurable (VO2 max, cardiorespiratory functioning, strength, distance, timing).

Doing say a 1000 kicks actually I can see can be helpful for many things, not only spirit and determination, but muscular endurance, cardio, working on keeping your posture and balance even when exhausted etc...

Of course, the cons can be that your technique deteriorates after a certain amount. So IF the goal was improving technique, that may not be the best option for it. It all depends on if the practice/method aligns with the goal. If you project a different end goal onto a method/exercise, of course it's going to seem pointless.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If not all good. My martial arts journey has taught me to respect others, even if they're on different paths and train in different ways that work for them. It has not taught me to belittle other people and their methods because I don't see the validity. I want to champion and bring out the best in people. No I don't mean just being overly agreeable and accepting everything everyone writes. There is absolutely a time and a place to question things, a very important practice.

This is not about me or someone being "disagreed with". I think that's healthy to have in an open forum. I've spent a great portion of time in writing all this to clarify where I'm coming from, you're under no obligation at all to reply if you don't want to. But if you do I look forward to it.

but thats the main issue, people ARE NOT their training regime, any more than they are their political or religious
affiliations

saying their training or their belief in god or their voting is ill informed is not an attack on them as a person

you can do really pointless training and still be a very very good and worth while person, just an ill informed on in a very very small aspect of your life

its clear to me though decades of experience that the less logic someone used to form a belief the more cross they get if someone uses logic to challenge that belief, thats because they have no logic to use in reply, and the more that take it as a personal affront.

I welcome people challenging my beliefs, if they out logic me, i consider the issue at length and if required change my beliefs, beliefs that arnt supported by logic are superstitions

they have serious issues, if they have allowed themselves to form a value judgement of their own self worth through something as unimportant as their training regime, if that isnt what they are using as external validation of the worth whileness of their existence then there is no logical reason to become upset, by it

the site has for obvious reason steered clear of two of the most likely topic to trigger irrational responses, those being politics and religion.

if your going to add ma training to the list of things that cant be challenged it rather removes the point of having a ma discussion forum

 

[_Simon_]

but thats the main issue, people ARE NOT their training regime, any more than they are their political or religious
affiliations

saying their training or their belief in god or their voting is ill informed is not an attack on them as a person

you can do really pointless training and still be a very very good and worth while person, just an ill informed on in a very very small aspect of your life

its clear to me though decades of experience that the less logic someone used to form a belief the more cross they get if someone uses logic to challenge that belief, thats because they have no logic to use in reply, and the more that take it as a personal affront.

I welcome people challenging my beliefs, if they out logic me, i consider the issue at length and if required change my beliefs, beliefs that arnt supported by logic are superstitions

they have serious issues, if they have allowed themselves to form a value judgement of their own self worth through something as unimportant as their training regime, if that isnt what they are using as external validation of the worth whileness of their existence then there is no logical reason to become upset, by it

the site has for obvious reason steered clear of two of the most likely topic to trigger irrational responses, those being politics and religion.

if your going to add ma training to the list of things that cant be challenged it rather removes the point of having a ma discussion forum

I am totally, totally on board with what you're saying. That's very much the case, we equate our sense of self with our beliefs and what we 'do', externalise it and then get personally offended when it gets challenged, as they put their self worth into it. I do alot of study and reading about this, inquire deeply into it and apply it to my own life. That's all valid for sure. And a whole other topic for another day.

What I'm simply suggesting, is that sometimes you will disregard someone's approach or training method because you personally don't understand it. This is a forum, of course there will differences in viewpoints and opinions. But you basically cast aside any methods that haven't been rigorously scientifically proven with irrefutable evidence, and claiming with some self-imposed all-knowingness that they're not beneficial. The scientific method is great, but it has many limitations when it is misapplied, or even used in a domain where it is just not relevant.

I'm a fan of calling out nonsense too, but you seem to equate 'nonsense' and 'pointless activities' with your not understanding them, and the context in which they are applied and beneficially carried out for that person.

I've been involved in the specialty coffee scene for many years.. and there are times when certain brewing and extraction methods and techniques are called 'voodoo' and 'pointless', downright saying that the other person is wasting their time and is overcomplicating it. This is absolutely the case sometimes, but there are so, SO many times which it actually really works really well for that person, their equipment, their machine, grinder, tamper, the beans roast depth and profile, local conditions (yes, location and humidity affect coffee and grinding consistency, clumping, static issues).

And not to mention the roasting side of things! What works for me on my roaster will just not be applicable at all to someone else on the exact same roaster. We've seen it time and time again. And this is an activity which actually DOES use numbers, graphs and measurements.

That's all I'm saying. There are different ways to do things. And we can't obviously control how other people react or feel. It just still comes across as disrespectful in an open forum where we're here to grow as martial artists and connect with other like-minded. Perhaps we simply have different approaches. All I can suggest is to maybe not shoot down and say that's crap straight away without considering that it may be of value to that persons training (which, in fact is what you claimed others were doing, which is spreading ill informed nonsense). But you do you boo! Not asking anything of you, merely a suggestion. And I will also be doing the same for myself in order to gain a greater understanding of martial arts.

I enjoyed reading your last post as it's stuff we all need to be aware of, to not project our sense of self worth in our training, and in general to what we do.