Has olympic Taekwondo ruined the reputation of the art?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Mr. President, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Yes! It devalues the reputation of race swimmers everywere, as well as elite life savers who learn to swim in the hostile environments of the beach. Its like *insert hard deadly military art here* for the water, and olympic swimming is its TKD.

    Please note that every single thing i just said was rubbish meant in the name of making fun of stereotypes. In all seriousness, the olympics just make TKD easier to pick on.
     
  2. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Well said. Worth seeing twice in this thread so I quoted it.
     
  3. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    The analogy fails. The average observer is well aware of the difference when it comes to those water sports.
     
  4. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    anyone that denies the damage done to TKD the martial art by TKD the olympic sport is either deluded or only ever speaks to other olympic style TKD people....

    they wear blackbelts, just like actual martial artists, and when tey look stupid,it makes every TKD black belt, even real ones look stupid by association
     
  5. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    qft
     
  6. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    The Olympics have brought a certain sport called TKD to the masses. What the masses make of that is not a good thing.
     
  7. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    They really just stood side by side hovering on one leg? I seriously doubt that.

    One interesting thing in your criticism is that you mention that they were obsessed with "not being scored on." A frequent criticism that I see of "sport" is that the participants seek to outscore and do things that would get them into some kind of trouble in a "real" fight. I would think that from a self defense standpoint, you would laud the notion of striking without being struck.


    Translation: "they could kick the crap outta me and I wouldn't be able to land a blow on them and I don't want to admit it, so I'll utter an uninformed critique that other uninformed people will take to heart in order to make my insecure little self feel better."


    No. The only thing that I feel has damaged the reputation of traditional martial arts in general and taekwondo in particular is the heavy commercialization.
     
  8. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That would be because it's not an analogy. The average observer on MT can tell the difference between Olympic TKD and 'other' TKD. I seriously and honestly believe the OP having disparaged his own style quite badly on another thread is now proceeding to do the same to TKD.
     
  9. Mr. President

    Mr. President Green Belt

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    Boxing is different. There are no points awarded for a good punch. It's either KO or an all around better performance. In TKD you stand there with those shields on you, and if you place a kick on your opponent's torso it's 1:0. That's enough to turn it into a very hesitant, coy affair with only the occasional half-assed offensive attempt.

    Watch it.
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Have you watched Olympic boxing? Points indeed are scored for punches. http://boxing.about.com/od/amateurs/a/oly_rules.htm

    "A point is awarded for a scoring hit with marked part of the glove on the opponent's head (side or front) or body (above the belt).
    A panel of five judges decides which hits are scoring hits.Judges each have two buttons before them, one for each boxer, and they press the appropriate button when they believe a boxer delivers a scoring hit."

     
  11. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    The bolded parts I agree with. But I fail to see the connection between the Olympics ruining taekwondo's reputation and your daughter not recognizing what martial art it is.

    People not connecting what they see in the Olympics to other elements of taekwondo is not the same as ruining the art's reputation; WTF tournament TKD is a specialized element of the art that appeals, as you say, mainly to those who are involved in it. What has been damaging to the art is rampant commercialization, which has hit arts outside of taekwondo, but which seems to have affected taekwondo more profoundly than it has other arts.

    This is part of a self perptetuating problem: the art is more popular so it attracts more of a commercial element. This in turn propels the popularity of the art, as commercialization has the effect of making things more appealing to a broader cross section of people, but it also tends to bring with it elements that are of little or no value to the art (more belts, service contracts, after school programs, black belt clubs, leadership clubs, and various other elements that translate into more colorful uniforms, more patches, and of course, more money).

    The promotion of large numbers of students who have visibly not gained proficiency in the basic technical elements of their previous grades has been far more damaging to traditional martial arts in general and to taekwondo in particular.
     
  12. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Wow!!!!! A new topic!!!!!

    TKD's reputation has not been ruined based by the Olympics.

    It has been ruined by jealous people who have no ability to to do well in the sport!

    if Karate gets in the Olympics the same thing will happen! Jealous people will bash it....

    You will find allot of friends on this board sport TKD bashing in another Martial Art here!
     
  13. Thousand Kicks

    Thousand Kicks Green Belt

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    As a TKD practicioner for a little less than 20 years, I have always taken the stance that you cannot let outside criticism of your art detract fropm your enjoyment of your art, regardless of the style. When I tell people I study TKD (mostly in the WTF olympic style of TKD) I've heard everything from "That crap doesn't work" to "Wax on Wax off Daniel-san". I just nod and agree because nothing they say can take away my enjoyment of TKD. When I look back at what I've acheived, what I've learned, and the people I've met it is a huge disservice to boil my art down to "It's just a sport" or "It's not traditional". The purpose of martial arts it to create better people not just bada** fighters.

    Most people have no idea what they would really do in a self defense scenario as most people have never been in a real fight. Much less attacked by a person with intent to kill or seriously harm. I venture to guess your response would not be classified as TKD or boxing or Karate or anything it is simply survival (even if it is throwing dirt at your attacker and running away). There are no styles in real fights. Every martial art has weakness that can only be covered by studying more and different fighting styles. What you end up with is your own style that takes advantage of your best physical assets.

    The only thing I can remark on about current olypic style TKD is that you used to have to make contact with "tremoring impact" to score points. Matches routinely ended with 2-1 or 1-0 scores. So, fighters a decade ago hit much harder than they do now. I personally don't like the change, but it doesn't really take away from what you can do in a match.
     
  14. Drasken

    Drasken Brown Belt

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    I find it funny. So many people say sport TKD is BS and that it hurts the style's reputation. But people swear by boxing and wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai. Most people would say MMA is more effective and matches are about KOs not about points.

    I find this funny because people complain mostly about the rules. But this is to protect the people competing. And keep in mind that boxing, wrestling and MMA have very similar rules. I've personally seen a match in which someone fought slopilly and ended up getting beat to heck in e last 2 rounds, but managed to pull off a win through point scoring. Seen the same in boxing. Not to mention in boxing and MMA, pads are added to lessen impact of blows on knuckles and the face. But this is seen as ok.

    Boxing started as a self defense style, not just a sport. In fact there are many punches that are considered illegal in a boxing or MMA match because of lethality. And long ago, matches were bare knuckle or hands were wrapped in leather. People died. If TKD matches were full contact with no rules, I guarantee that people would die in those as well.

    My point is, yes there are Mcdojos out there that teach things wrong. There are schools that teach tournament martial arts only. But I would include many MMA gyms in this category as well if they teach only cage rules. But not everyone is interested in self defense. But that shouldn't reflect on the style itself.
    People tend to attack other styles that they don't understand because it makes them feel better about their own technique. It's no different than the bullies on the school playground really.

    I just really don't see why people feel the need to belittle others to make themselves feel better. Your opinion doesn't change the effectiveness of an art, any more than a few bad dojos change the fact that TKD is an effective, and let's not forget military, style. If styles weren't effective or usable in the real world, they wouldn't still exist. The fact that they'res used for sport only means that people want to use what they've learned and paid so much money for instead of preparing for that self defense situation that hopefully, and in all likelyhood, will never come.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  15. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    I maintain that TKD's reputation hasn't been ruined by the anything; that implies that its reputation is indeed ruined, which it is not. It has certainly taken some hits, but I believe that that is due to it being caught in the general commercial martial arts scene along with a host of other arts. Karate has certainly suffered as much as taekwondo if the internet is to be believed, but I would hardly say that karate's reputation is 'ruined' either.

    By comparison, Mel Gibson's reputation is ruined. So far as I know, there is little to no demand for his services, hardly anybody wants to be associated with him, and regardless of his ability as an actor and a director, his name evokes near universal derision.
     
  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    It hasn't ruined it's reputation at all. The people who love Olympic TKD are happy with it, those like me who aren't keen on it don't take much notice as we know there's the what we think of as proper TKD which isn't 'tarnished' by the Olympic stuff as it's quite a bit diffferent. I'm not keen on the XMA stuff either but it doesn't diminish any style. It may mislead people a little who want to train it and think that when they go to a more traditional instructor they will be taught that but they'll either go look for XMA or stay and train. Either way they will have come into martial arts and then people like me can persuade them to do karate or MMA instead. :lol: I don't think jealousy comes into it, it's just horses for courses.
     
  17. ralphmcpherson

    ralphmcpherson Senior Master

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    I really wish it was as simple as people just being "jelous", but sadly we all know thats not the case.
     
  18. ATC

    ATC Senior Master

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    Just got back from the US. Open. Not a single person on this board would last 1 round with any of the athletes at the event. Even the 15 year olds would put just about everyone on here to shame. Think what you will.
     
  19. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    I'm curious as to what you hope to accomplish with a comment like this? You have not trained with the vast majority of members, just in this one section of the board. Therefore you don't know the capabilities or experiences of these members. Therefore your comment, while perhaps enthusiastic isn't warranted or even remotely factual.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Especially when we are against the OPs premise and are supporting TKD, seems an odd thing to say!123
     

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