Has Democracy any place in the Martial arts?

[sweeper]

I don't teach, but I look at class as a combination of school, (as in an institute or university of higher education) and sports practice (as in a team sport).

Neither situation the individual has alot of say because the reason you go to class/practice is to objectivly improve and your own view of yourself is always gona be subjective.. so you go to someone skilled in helping others develop. It has been rare for me to step into a college class room and have the teacher ask us what we want to do.. sometimes this happens but it's usualy only when our class has progressed ahead of schdual so we have an extra amount of time, or in the team sports comparison, when the practice emediatly postdates either a big game, or a period of intence work..

I would also note that I have played on a team that was not oriented like this, when I used to play youth soccer when I was about 15 our couch stopped couching, we didn't want to split up so we desided to couch ourselves.. didn't work nearly as well.. very few of us had the drive to go through with it and without an authoritarian body it was imposable to inforce any real rules, the team was ok but over time it degraded. I do not think this would have happened if we had someone in charge that you couldn't say no to. Simularly I have been in classes with new teachers who were very passive in comparison to the more established teachers, and again in those situations the students who lacked greater than average motivation did not improve much.

So ultimately I think if you go to someone and ask "will you teach me how to do X" and than go and say "but I don't want to practice Y right now I want to practice Z" you are basicly shooting yourself in the foot.

The student who's knowledge is most likely inferior to the instructors very rarely will know what is best.

 

[yilisifu]

That says it all!

 

[Touch Of Death]

If you accept peoples money and you want more students, its a democracy.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by sweeper
I don't teach, but I look at class as a combination of school, (as in an institute or university of higher education) and sports practice (as in a team sport).

Neither situation the individual has alot of say because the reason you go to class/practice is to objectivly improve and your own view of yourself is always gona be subjective.. so you go to someone skilled in helping others develop. It has been rare for me to step into a college class room and have the teacher ask us what we want to do.. sometimes this happens but it's usualy only when our class has progressed ahead of schdual so we have an extra amount of time, or in the team sports comparison, when the practice emediatly postdates either a big game, or a period of intence work..

I would also note that I have played on a team that was not oriented like this, when I used to play youth soccer when I was about 15 our couch stopped couching, we didn't want to split up so we desided to couch ourselves.. didn't work nearly as well.. very few of us had the drive to go through with it and without an authoritarian body it was imposable to inforce any real rules, the team was ok but over time it degraded. I do not think this would have happened if we had someone in charge that you couldn't say no to. Simularly I have been in classes with new teachers who were very passive in comparison to the more established teachers, and again in those situations the students who lacked greater than average motivation did not improve much.

So ultimately I think if you go to someone and ask "will you teach me how to do X" and than go and say "but I don't want to practice Y right now I want to practice Z" you are basicly shooting yourself in the foot.

The student who's knowledge is most likely inferior to the instructors very rarely will know what is best.

There are 2 types of privates.

1) Private lessons from your regular instructor.

2) Private lessons from someone who is not your regular instructor.

There are many reasons for both.

When I was in BJJ they asked us what we wanted to cover and even told us to just pay for the half hour VS. the hour because theres no way you will remember an hour of one on one new material. In everything in life there in pro and con and good and bad and yin and yang.

As an Instructor I may seek private instruction from another Instructor. When I drive down from San Jose to L.A. (6 hours), do you think that I will just let them "try and figure out" what I need. Not a chance! Today thats not the way it works, not if the Instructor really expects you to learn something.:asian:

 

[Jill666]

I expect my instructor to push me. I expect to have high demands placed on me. I don't expect to set the curriculum, since I do not know the material and often don't know where I need to develop to meet the goals for the upcoming classes. In group classes, we do what the instructor plans. Sometimes he tells us ahead of time what he wants us to work on, to be prepared for future class focus. Sometimes he says we will do X and we do Y instead.

In private classes, sometimes he will ask what I wanted to work on, other times he has something planned so I'm up to speed with the class later. Sometimes he'll tell me something needs work- I believe him.

So my answer is NO! If I knew the stuff, I wouldn't be working overtime to pay someone else to show it to me, would I?

Some complain that our instructor is too strict- I have usually felt he isn't strict enough. :shrug: Whatever.

 

[Taiji fan]

My teachers method is very simple, don't give the students what they want...give them what they need. You see it alot in taijiquan, people get so wrapped up in 'what move comes next' that they may not get to any depth in the previous moves, then it merely becomes a performance or dance.
I often give students choices in the class......but based on what I want them to do....eg in the warm ups, if you get tagged with the pad to you want to do press ups or jumping jacks? They get to choose and will still do the exercises that I want them to. Same with the circuit....do you want an aerobic circuit or stances......both have their own challenges....but basically, in the class the Instructor has to be in charge....and lets face it if people don't like it they can always train somewhere else..

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Taiji fan
My teachers method is very simple, don't give the students what they want...give them what they need. You see it alot in taijiquan, people get so wrapped up in 'what move comes next' that they may not get to any depth in the previous moves, then it merely becomes a performance or dance.
I often give students choices in the class......but based on what I want them to do....eg in the warm ups, if you get tagged with the pad to you want to do press ups or jumping jacks? They get to choose and will still do the exercises that I want them to. Same with the circuit....do you want an aerobic circuit or stances......both have their own challenges....but basically, in the class the Instructor has to be in charge....and lets face it if people don't like it they can always train somewhere else..

I think that was a part of the problem. People think that in a "private class" it is not appropriate to ask for special instruction in an area that you are weak or feel you are weak in.

A "private" is above and beyond the "regular" class and its OK to "want" to "learn" how to "understand" your body. We all learn by teaching and you need to teach before you are actually an instructor, so I see no problem with "taking the reigns", on our own time.

Any and all instructors can at anytime refuse you antway. And I think your instructor would be more happy to see you as interested in you "on your path to destiny" rather than "someone whi just shows up and leaves!:asian:

 

[Taiji fan]

sorry I was actually refering to a group situation, when studying one to one with my teacher, I am always asked what I am working on currently and we usually go from there, but I trust that my teacher will give me what I need, if there is something more important that she wants me to work on other than a technique or what ever that I want to work with I am happy to trust her judgement........thats why she is my teacher.