Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My final decision after putting some research into this and I mean a lot of research as well as looking up trainings and talking to WT instructors is that I won't do it. In my heart I am a semi to full contact martial artist who finds joy in stuff like Kickboxing and did ITF Taekwondo for a long time. This is the stuff I like. I might look into MT, but only once I am in shape, not before that.

So ultimately, you are choosing to do nothing rather than something. Good luck with your weight loss.

 

[Bayroum]

So ultimately, you are choosing to do nothing rather than something. Good luck with your weight loss.

I would not call exercising everyday and following a strict diet nothing.

I just need to get fit and strong before I put myself in a ring with a sparring partner again.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

So ultimately, you are choosing to do nothing rather than something. Good luck with your weight loss.

Maybe the flavor of our conversations here at MT were not as illuminating, encouraging or helpful as we imagine.

 

[Mider]

Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

if yes, how effective is it generally speaking ?

I did other more full-contact system before and want to get into Wing-Chun, but I also want to make sure I learn something " new ".
I read so many bad things online about Wing-Chun claiming it is not effective at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

What area are you in?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

What area are you in?

Germany

 

[Bayroum]

What area are you in?

As Wing Woo Gar said. Germany. Nowhere near. lol.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I would not call exercising everyday and following a strict diet nothing.

I just need to get fit and strong before I put myself in a ring with a sparring partner again.

I reread my response, and realized this was likely read wrong. I specifically meant do nothing in terms of martial arts. Which is fine - everyone takes breaks at point for different purposes. Was not meant as a judgment or diminishing your weight loss focus - I was legitimately wishing you luck on your weight loss, since I figured we'd mostly be seeing you again once you hit that point.
That said, people have used MA as a way to help lose weight. A thread you might find interesting to look at is this one: One small step closer...

It's someone who started off training again in part to lose weight, and her journey over the course of about 5 years training and improving.

 

[Mider]

As Wing Woo Gar said. Germany. Nowhere near. lol.

Pretty sure Keith R. Kernspechts is in Germany

 

[Mider]

As Wing Woo Gar said. Germany. Nowhere near. lol.

I believe Phillip Bayer as well

 

[punisher73]

My final decision after putting some research into this and I mean a lot of research as well as looking up trainings and talking to WT instructors is that I won't do it. In my heart I am a semi to full contact martial artist who finds joy in stuff like Kickboxing and did ITF Taekwondo for a long time. This is the stuff I like. I might look into MT, but only once I am in shape, not before that.

Just some food for thought. It isn't "pure Wing Chun/Tsun", but have you looked into a Jeet Kune Do school? Bruce Lee took a lot of Wing Chun's concepts and were adapted to a boxing style platform.

For example, the "straight blast" in JKD is exactly what Vitor Belfort used that was pointed to earlier. You will also probably learn a lot of "dirty boxing" from the FMA's that are built on a western boxing platform.

You would still be increasing your toolbox, but it would be building upon what you already do and enjoy without learning something completely different.

 

[hunschuld]

In response to your original question.

I have used my wing chun for real world self defense. 3 armed men attempted to rob me at about 2 am while walking home from Rush & Division in Chicago. Fortunately the area at the time was well policed so the encounter lasted only a couple of minutes. 2 of the 3 were larger than me. The result is I learned the next day I had a broken jaw, The police recovered a gun, 2 Knives and the club that I was struck with. 2 of the three were not able to attend the first or second court hearings because they were hospitalized.

It is up to you to decide if my wing chun was effective or not.

 

[Po!]

Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

if yes, how effective is it generally speaking ?

I did other more full-contact system before and want to get into Wing-Chun, but I also want to make sure I learn something " new ".
I read so many bad things online about Wing-Chun claiming it is not effective at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I have. In 2018 a gentleman had road rage and followed me home he got out of his car with a machete and when he missed his first swing I use things straight out of Chum Kiu. I had a small cut on my fingers from his teeth and a small bruise on my ribs and on the inside of my bicep due to pinning and trapping his hand and the handle of the machete. He spent two and a half weeks in ICU with a very bad closed head injury. Wing Chun works if you work it.

 

[Steve]

What important is not the MA style but principle/strategy. A valid strategy/principle can be learned from different resources.

People always say that WC and boxing are different. What if you have cross trained both WC and boxing? When your fist meets on your opponent's face, is that a WC punch, or is that a boxing punch?

The day when you say, "This is boxing. This is not WC." You have just set limitation on yourself.

Does this group (in the following picture) look like long fist guys, Chinese wrestling guys? Sanda guys?, MMA guys?, ... ? As long as they can fight, who cares?

The 1st guy on the right with red jacket is also a WC instructor.

View attachment 29940

Those guys all look like bruisers, but that guy standing next to the WC instructor... those legs are like tree trunks. And dude third from the left rocking that shiner. I mean, they look credible.

 

[yak sao]

The majority of Wing Chun online is goofy, but it's one of the most precious martial arts in history, since it contains a long, long distillation of different fighting styles, including everything in boxing.

Most of the people who say bad things about it, don't know a thing about it. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are bad at it, love to post diatribes and videos online about it. I cannot think of another style that has had so many apologistas, except maybe Aikido and Ninjutsu (I love both of those arts).

I think Wing Chun is, of maybe all Kung Fu styles, the most misunderstood and misrepresented. I kind of repeat this mantra but it's best to learn Wing Chun along with a wider exposure to southern Chinese MA. There are other Chinese family styles that contain the entirety of Wing Chun.

What Southern styles do you think needs to be added to complete the curriculum!

 

[Oily Dragon]

What Southern styles do you think needs to be added to complete the curriculum!

Being what it is, Wing Chun suffers from a problem of reduction. You can see this in the brevity of the fist sets compared to related styles from the same region that involve a lot more in terms of physical training.

One example I can think of is Shaolin Tiger. You won't find any of that grappling, gripping, or clawing in Wing Chun. And the Dragon elements that Wing Chun shares with other arts like Hung Ga are not as detailed.

Another are the level changes common to other arts that you don't find much in Wing Chun schools. This is where a lot of online videos of WC students challenging wrestlers ends with the inevitable takedown, almost always because when you see WC training, there is rarely and squatting/dropping/sprawling/rolling, all of which are proven combat techniques. WC has developed this annoying caricature of Ip Man in the movies, standing rigid and pivoting around like a wooden pole. It's totally unrealistic.

It doesn't help that Wing Chun is probably the CMA style most impacted by lineage wars, something you don't see as much in the five major southern family styles, northern styles, emei or wudang, all of whom seem to have done just fine sharing and refining.

I've gotten beat on before for pointing it out (my sources are pretty solid) but at some point there was a big split in Wing Chun, where it lost of lot of its root material and became very distilled.

In the San Shou, Lei Tai, and MMA can circles, WC is very underrepresented, but many teachers and students are stubborn about seeking more.l, hence the term "Wing Chun Man".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Another are the level changes common to other arts that you don't find much in Wing Chun schools.

You are right. The following are missing in WC.

- drop down.
- forward jump.
- backward jump.
- body spin.
- ...

The older you are, you more that you will feel those training can keep you "young".



If we look at the following toolbox, WC can offer less tools than other MA systems can.

Toolbox:

1. Punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, spiral punch, hay-maker, ...
2. Kick - front toe kick, front heel kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, hook kick, back kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jumping double front kick, jumping crescent kick, ...
3. Knee - upward knee, horizontal knee, 45 degree knee, flying knee, ...
4. Elbow - horizontal elbow, upward elbow, downward elbow, forward elbow, backward elbow, ...
5. Lock - finger lock, wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, head lock, spine lock, knee lock, ankle lock, ...
6. Throw - single leg, double legs, hip throw, leg twist, leg spring, leg lift, leg block, foot sweep, ...
7. Footwork - forward step, backward step, side step, wheeling step, circle walking, circle running, long distance advance, long distance retreat, ...
8. Ground game - full mount, side mount, arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...
9. Short weapon - dagger, double edges sword, single edge knife, Miao Diao, ...
10. Long weapon - staff, pole, spear, Guan Dao, ...
11. Throwing weapon - bow and arrow, throwing dart, throwing knife, throwing rock, ...
12. Firearm - pistol, riffle, machine gun, RPG, grenade throwing, ...

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Being what it is, Wing Chun suffers from a problem of reduction. You can see this in the brevity of the fist sets compared to related styles from the same region that involve a lot more in terms of physical training.

One example I can think of is Shaolin Tiger. You won't find any of that grappling, gripping, or clawing in Wing Chun. And the Dragon elements that Wing Chun shares with other arts like Hung Ga are not as detailed.

Another are the level changes common to other arts that you don't find much in Wing Chun schools. This is where a lot of online videos of WC students challenging wrestlers ends with the inevitable takedown, almost always because when you see WC training, there is rarely and squatting/dropping/sprawling/rolling, all of which are proven combat techniques. WC has developed this annoying caricature of Ip Man in the movies, standing rigid and pivoting around like a wooden pole. It's totally unrealistic.

It doesn't help that Wing Chun is probably the CMA style most impacted by lineage wars, something you don't see as much in the five major southern family styles, northern styles, emei or wudang, all of whom seem to have done just fine sharing and refining.

I've gotten beat on before for pointing it out (my sources are pretty solid) but at some point there was a big split in Wing Chun, where it lost of lot of its root material and became very distilled.

In the San Shou, Lei Tai, and MMA can circles, WC is very underrepresented, but many teachers and students are stubborn about seeking more.l, hence the term "Wing Chun Man".

This is exactly what I experienced with the local wing chun/ving tsun people, it’s like fantasy land. They all are just imagining that chain punching will somehow stop me from running them over with jab/hook combos and simple front leg sweeps.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is exactly what I experienced with the local wing chun/ving tsun people, it’s like fantasy land. They all are just imagining that chain punching will somehow stop me from running them over with jab/hook combos and simple front leg sweeps.

If A uses chain punches and B uses double hooks, my bet will be on B. A hook punch can knock down a straight punch. But a straight punch cannot knock down a hook punch.

Many years ago, a CLF guy fought a WC guy in a Hong Kong tournament. The CLF guys threw a right haymaker. The WC guy used a left Tan Shou to block it. The haymaker knocked through the Tan Shou and still knocked the WC guy down. The WC guy went home and asked Ip Men. Ip Men then told him to use right Tan Shou with body rotation to block a right haymaker.

IMO, to use a 45 degree upward left Bong Shou to block a right hook punch can be a better solution.

 

[geezer]

If A uses chain punches and B uses double hooks, my bet will be on B. A hook punch can knock down a straight punch. But a straight punch cannot knock down a hook punch.

Many years ago, a CLF guy fought a WC guy in a Hong Kong tournament. The CLF guys threw a right haymaker. The WC guy used a left Tan Shou to block it. The haymaker knocked through the Tan Shou and still knocked the WC guy down. The WC guy went home and asked Ip Men. Ip Men then told him to use right Tan Shou with body rotation to block a right haymaker.

IMO, to use a 45 degree upward left Bong Shou to block a right hook punch can be a better solution.

Yes and no.

Bong sau, as taught in my (LT) lineage and some other Yip Man WC branches, is a flexible, yielding movement that deflects. IMO this is not reliable against a haymaker. But moving inside with a bent elbow biu sau (or what some call a palm-down fook sau) can work. In fact it can injure the attackers striking arm as you simultaneously strike with the other arm. In fact I prefer using this with both arms. Wedging in with one arm defending and the other striking. The arm position does look a bit like a modified bong sau and may be called that in some lineages.

Based on previous videos and comments you have posted, I think this is what you are referring to. And if that is the case, I heartily agree,

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes and no.

Bong sau, as taught in my (LT) lineage and some other Yip Man WC branches, is a flexible, yielding movement that deflects. IMO this is not reliable against a haymaker. But moving inside with a bent elbow biu sau (or what some call a palm-down fook sau) can work. In fact it can injure the attackers striking arm as you simultaneously strike with the other arm. In fact I prefer using this with both arms. Wedging in with one arm defending and the other striking. The arm position does look a bit like a modified bong sau and may be called that in some lineages.

Based on previous videos and comments you have posted, I think this is what you are referring to. And if that is the case, I heartily agree,

WC Bong Shou can be used as an overhand. After you have used your curved arm (strong structure) to block a hook punch, your fist can land on your opponent's face. It integrates both defense and offense into 1 move.

The nice thing about Bong Shou is the elbow is not pointing down but pointing up. This gives you a very strong structure.