"Happy Slapping" in the U.K.

[arnisador]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050619/ts_chicagotrib/happyslapyobsbreedfearanger

It's a criminal assault. Groups of teenagers approach an unsuspecting person and begin punching and kicking him or her while capturing it all on their mobile camera phones. The images are later uploaded and shared on the Internet.

The victims can be young or old, male or female. Bus stops, tube stations and parks are considered prime venues. In most cases, the injuries are minor. But on Saturday, British newspapers reported that an 11-year-old London girl had been raped by a gang of happy slappers, and Scotland Yard confirmed that three 14-year-old boys had been arrested.

The craze apparently started in London late last year but has spread across the country. British Transport Police say they have investigated about 200 attacks in London alone since the beginning of the year, but they acknowledge that most go unreported.

Happy slapping is the latest manifestation of what Britons call "yob culture." The word "yob" dates to the 19th Century--it likely derives from "boy" spelled backward--and it denotes a kind of loutish, anti-social behavior associated with working-class youth in Britain's urban centers. The British soccer hooligan is the quintessential yob.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think Robert Duvall summed up the problem best in "Second Hand Lions".


"This is exactly what I'm talking about, ever since this boy was sucking on his mama's tit he has been given everything but discipline. Now his idea of being a man is coming around here, harassing the good natured folks too polite to put a stop to it." “Who am I? I’m Hub McCann. I’ve fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and tanks. I’ve seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I’ve won and lost a dozen fortunes, killed many men and loved only one woman with a passion a flea like you could never begin to understand. That’s who I am. Now, go home, boy! “

Robert Duvall-"Second Hand Lions"

I doubt this will catch on in my neck of the woods. Why not? Two words..."concealed carry". Gang of youth versus old man? Gang of youth wins. Gang of youth versus old man armed with .40 Glock and 16 "friends"? It only takes one "incident" to steer youth away from "happy slapping". It's hard to intimidate the public when you always have to wonder which adult is armed.

 

[Tgace]

Funny you mention that movie. Heres my favorite quote from it.

"Some times the the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good. That honor, virtue and courage mean everything. That money and power mean nothing. That good always triumphs over evil. That true love never dies. Dosen't matter if they're true or not. A man should believe in those things anyway. Because they are the things worth believing in."
-Second Hand Lions

And on the topic...at least they have gun control huh?

 

[Tgace]

This is interesting though. Its like an extension of our "Disorderly Conduct".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050619/ts_chicagotrib/happyslapyobsbreedfearanger

The government's main weapon against yobbery is the ASBO. An acronym for "anti-social behavior order," it is a civil order obtained from a court that prohibits a person from engaging in certain narrowly defined activities that are not necessarily criminal but are clearly anti-social.

A neighbor who habitually throws loud drunken parties might be slapped with an ASBO that sharply curtails the number of guests allowed on the premises after 9 p.m. People who violate an ASBO can be jailed.

At first, the process of obtaining an ASBO was overly bureaucratic, slow and costly. Only 600 were issued in the first three years of the program, which began in 1998. But the process has been streamlined, and last year 2,600 ASBOs were issued.

Some community activists say the targeted use of ASBOs has been an effective crime-stopper, but others point to abuses.

 

[Bammx2]

ASBO's are the most worthless thing ever created to suck tax payers money.

They are just basically restraining orders say junior can't go to streets A,B,C....
so he goes to D,E, and F.
At which point,the police say..."we can't do a thing because he's allowed legally".
There was a police officer here last month who was questioning some teens who were in question of asbo violations.....
He just got out of the hospital recently. No arrests as far as I know.
He didn't even get a chance to call for back up..they beat him pretty damn bad.
The "happy slapping" has become a competition amongst those who participate.Trying to see who can get the "best stunt" and it is escalating out of control big time.
Personally.....
I see a teenager with a video phone pointed at me...HE is the first one I hit,then I am going after his friends!
The biggest problem is....they know the victim is NOT ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK.
So if the intended victim swings first (or at any point)...he's in jail and all the teenagers won't hesitate to testify.
For me...I'll take a deportaion for making an example! I wouldn't mind a free plane ride home!

What I see the main problem being is the fact these kids know thier "legal rights" and they know how to abuse them.
They have the same rights we had as a kid,but no one shoved them in our face to use as ammunition against the very people who fed us.
Except here,you definately are guilty until proven innocent,so these kids can hollar wolf all they want...and mom and dad are done for!
Screw the person at the bus stop,they have NO chance!
But alas,in true british fashion,there is a solution..........
BAN VIDEO-PHONES!

 

[Adept]

Chavs are apparently an escalating problem in the UK.

But as Tgace said: At least they got those evil guns under control, right?

 

[Adept]

But alas,in true british fashion,there is a solution..........
BAN VIDEO-PHONES!

I read about the Brits actually calling for a ban on Kitchen Knives a while back. Please tell me I remember incorrectly...

 

[Franc0]

But as Tgace said: At least they got those evil guns under control, right?

Yeah, but give it some time and they'll soon be outlawing slapping too

 

[Yossarian75]

There was talk recently about banning kitchen knives with points as well as replica hand guns. It makes the government look like they are doing something about our violent crime problems.

As for ASBOS, I live in a housing estate and there has been absolutely no difference in anti social behavour around here at all. A friend of mine who lives in a nicer part of town can now go to jail if he plays the drums in his flat again.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

BAN VIDEO-PHONES!

This would certainly take away the notoriety. Video phones also create problems like credit card number theft, and issues concerning invasion of privacy. In the local YMCA where my son swims, any type of cell phone has been banned in the locker rooms and pool areas. I think it's the right decision.

 

[arnisador]

There was something like this in the U.S., at least in Boston, some years back--a game of "knockout" where someone tries to knock a stranger out from behind with a single blow. I believe there were some deaths.

Banning kitchen knives in the U.K.:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24481

 

[sgtmac_46]

ASBO's are the most worthless thing ever created to suck tax payers money.

They are just basically restraining orders say junior can't go to streets A,B,C....
so he goes to D,E, and F.
At which point,the police say..."we can't do a thing because he's allowed legally".
There was a police officer here last month who was questioning some teens who were in question of asbo violations.....
He just got out of the hospital recently. No arrests as far as I know.
He didn't even get a chance to call for back up..they beat him pretty damn bad.
The "happy slapping" has become a competition amongst those who participate.Trying to see who can get the "best stunt" and it is escalating out of control big time.
Personally.....
I see a teenager with a video phone pointed at me...HE is the first one I hit,then I am going after his friends!
The biggest problem is....they know the victim is NOT ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK.
So if the intended victim swings first (or at any point)...he's in jail and all the teenagers won't hesitate to testify.
For me...I'll take a deportaion for making an example! I wouldn't mind a free plane ride home!

What I see the main problem being is the fact these kids know thier "legal rights" and they know how to abuse them.
They have the same rights we had as a kid,but no one shoved them in our face to use as ammunition against the very people who fed us.
Except here,you definately are guilty until proven innocent,so these kids can hollar wolf all they want...and mom and dad are done for!
Screw the person at the bus stop,they have NO chance!
But alas,in true british fashion,there is a solution..........
BAN VIDEO-PHONES!

Cops must be different in England. If a teenager takes a swing at a cop here, he's made a HUGE mistake that he'll be whinning about for a while. Most kids in my community wouldn't DARE swing at an officer, because they still know we will respond aggressively.

 

[sgtmac_46]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24481

I thought gun control was supposed to stop all the violence? Isn't Great Britain a paradise of crimelessness?

As for "happy slapping", how about taking the offending youth and flogging them? I have to think that 10 lashes in the public square would cure the problem. Of course I have a sneaking suspicion that, while everyone says they want an answer, they don't want an effective one.

 

[Bammx2]

Here in the UK....the police are fighting a major uphill battle and they aren't fairing to well.
Take personal training for instance...
They are given jujitsu classes for self-defense.Exellent.....for 1-on-1.
NO ONE here fights 1-on-1..its always multiples.
They have thier ASP baton and some times pepper spray.
If they come against an assailant,procedure is to have baton on shoulder,back away 10 feet and call for back up.
If the assailant has a knife (or weapon in general)...baton on shoulder,back 15 feet,call for back up.
Thats it.
Assaults on police has gone up 300% in the last 2 years and its getting worse, almost 5 fold this year alone!
I have personally seen officers try and talk to kids and the kids tell the officer "get you F'n hands off me" and the officer has to do what he is told....BY THE KID!
One major incident I have to mention here....
6 years ago,a drunk man standing in low light threatened the fire arms unit with a "shotgun"....they opened fire.He died.
They followed all proper procedures and gave him all the chances they could.
The "shotgun" turned out to be a table leg.
Now...6 years later...the officers in question have been arrested AGAIN on the suspicion of neglegent homicide...this something like the 4th or 5th time they have tried to get these officers on some form of a MURDER charge.
The majority of all the firearms units have stated they will quit if these guys get fired or convicted.Don't blame them a bit!
If an officer shoots someone,he is automatically desk-bound on an investigation of homicide or negligent homicide.
I saw video footage from Cardiff in Wales...12 officers attacked by 52 drunks at closing time.....use your imagination.
Now...if the police have to put with this.....
Think about your average citizen who has NO right to self-defense what so ever.
2 years for carrying a pocket knife with a lock..................
:shrug:

 

[Franc0]

Here in the UK....the police are fighting a major uphill battle and they aren't fairing to well.
Take personal training for instance...
They are given jujitsu classes for self-defense.Exellent.....for 1-on-1.
NO ONE here fights 1-on-1..its always multiples.
They have thier ASP baton and some times pepper spray.
If they come against an assailant,procedure is to have baton on shoulder,back away 10 feet and call for back up.
If the assailant has a knife (or weapon in general)...baton on shoulder,back 15 feet,call for back up.
Thats it.
Assaults on police has gone up 300% in the last 2 years and its getting worse, almost 5 fold this year alone!
I have personally seen officers try and talk to kids and the kids tell the officer "get you F'n hands off me" and the officer has to do what he is told....BY THE KID!
One major incident I have to mention here....
6 years ago,a drunk man standing in low light threatened the fire arms unit with a "shotgun"....they opened fire.He died.
They followed all proper procedures and gave him all the chances they could.
The "shotgun" turned out to be a table leg.
Now...6 years later...the officers in question have been arrested AGAIN on the suspicion of neglegent homicide...this something like the 4th or 5th time they have tried to get these officers on some form of a MURDER charge.
The majority of all the firearms units have stated they will quit if these guys get fired or convicted.Don't blame them a bit!
If an officer shoots someone,he is automatically desk-bound on an investigation of homicide or negligent homicide.
I saw video footage from Cardiff in Wales...12 officers attacked by 52 drunks at closing time.....use your imagination.
Now...if the police have to put with this.....
Think about your average citizen who has NO right to self-defense what so ever.
2 years for carrying a pocket knife with a lock..................
:shrug:

Jeeziz! I do not envy the job of LEO's in the UK. It seems that it will get to a major boiling point over there, and only until all the UK's officers band together to force a change in policy, that things will get better for them.
It seems that the banning of firearms in the UK didn't really help things much violence wise for law enforcement or civillians, they just pimp slap ya now.

Franco

 

[adouglasmhor]

The "drunk man" who "threatened officers with a shotgun" was a partially deaf man who had only drunk lemonade that day. He turned round probably because being almost totally deaf he could not hear what they were saying, seeing the table leg in his carrier bag and having told by a lying anonymous telephone informant he had a shotgun (and that he was Northern Irish at a time when C/R IRA were active?) they felt they had to fire. I was not there and I would probably have made the same call as them but blackening the dead guy's actions does not help get the two officers cleared.

 

[Bammx2]

The "drunk man" who "threatened officers with a shotgun" was a partially deaf man who had only drunk lemonade that day. He turned round probably because being almost totally deaf he could not hear what they were saying, seeing the table leg in his carrier bag and having told by a lying anonymous telephone informant he had a shotgun (and that he was Northern Irish at a time when C/R IRA were active?) they felt they had to fire. I was not there and I would probably have made the same call as them but blackening the dead guy's actions does not help get the two officers cleared.

Ok.....
I wasn't there either.
I was only quoting the news stories I have seen and read.
Just as you were,obviously.
either way,for whatever reason,it's over.Done and dusted.
Everyone agrees,it was a justifiable shoot.
Except the family,of course.
What IS a big problem in this country with the gov't is they are ALWAYS looking for someone or something to blame.....they are not interested in fixing the problems.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Ok.....
I wasn't there either.
I was only quoting the news stories I have seen and read.
Just as you were,obviously.
either way,for whatever reason,it's over.Done and dusted.
Everyone agrees,it was a justifiable shoot.
Except the family,of course.
What IS a big problem in this country with the gov't is they are ALWAYS looking for someone or something to blame.....they are not interested in fixing the problems.

Sounds like the law in the UK is only designed to be obeyed by law abiding citizens.

 

[Bammx2]

Sounds like the law in the UK is only designed to be obeyed by law abiding citizens.

It is...sort of.
I asked an officer in Hastings once:
"If I kickoff on a mugger and and I use something at hand to defend myself and he runs off,why do I get arrested when I call the police"?
His reply...
"because the mugger has run off and you still there".

Here,If you get attacked by someone with a knife(or anything for that matter) and you pick something and hit him more than once,REGARDLESS of wether the first hit was effective,YOU get arrested for excessive use of force and the attacker gets to press charges!

 

[sgtmac_46]

It is...sort of.
I asked an officer in Hastings once:
"If I kickoff on a mugger and and I use something at hand to defend myself and he runs off,why do I get arrested when I call the police"?
His reply...
"because the mugger has run off and you still there".

Here,If you get attacked by someone with a knife(or anything for that matter) and you pick something and hit him more than once,REGARDLESS of wether the first hit was effective,YOU get arrested for excessive use of force and the attacker gets to press charges!

If that were the case, i'd run off before the police arrived too.