What do they represent? That's the question I'm coming up with, now that I'm at an advanced belt level. On the 2 new forms I've learned so far: one starts off with both hands start like I'm used to seeing (like when I'm ready for a command from my instructor), except the hands are open and as I'm about to take my first step, it's a strike to the groin area. The other form is my left hand is at my waist in a fist with my right hand covering the knuckles. I'm not real certain as to what that is, but have a couple of ideas. There is one more at my belt rank, and a few others that I've seen in more advanced levels. What I was wondering, was why so many different hand positions, and do they have any meanings?
Hand postitions in jhoon be
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trueaspirer
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sorry, can't help you,I'm tsd, but you might want to ask more specifically in the Tae Kwan Do forum.
In ATA TKD Jhoon be is attention & Hands to sides standing at attention Barrow is with hands & arms locked out in a fast motion & spapping of the gi with the hands closed fist aprox 4" from stomache.Sha is more of a relaxed comand & to go on your way or as (you were) is the comand given in the army.
Jhoon be as I understand it is hands closed with palms facing front thigh. I take TKD as you do. I will be testing for green next month. You are more advanced than I in TKD. I am only testing for my 4th belt. I am wandering what forms are you learning.
I have some websites that give incredible illustration and explaination behind each form. Let me know if I can help.
Hoshin,
Matt
I have some websites that give incredible illustration and explaination behind each form. Let me know if I can help.
Hoshin,
Matt
fireman00
Brown Belt
Do you mean "joon-bi"? If so - it means "Ready Postion" . We've been taught that your feet should be shoulder width apart, hands clenched in fists just at chest height and about 4" apart.
fireman00 said:
Very well it is exactly right, by the way Chareyot is attention not Joo-bi barrow is at ease.
Terry
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fireman00 said:
I'm not a good speller of Korean terms (I have some written down, they weren't in front of me at the time). It's "joon bee" where I'm looking at. The 2 forms I've done so far is Kuk Mu Oh Dan and Chul Gi Cho Dan. There's also Pal Sek, and I'll learn that a little later on as a brown belt.
Miles
Senior Master
Ready stance, as taught by the Kukkiwon's GM Lee, Chong Kwan:
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information03_03.jsp
I previously was taught that my feet were to be shoulder-width apart and to thrust the fists out. Getting into the correct Joonbi position was one of the first things GM Lee, Chong Kwan went over with us.
At a recent Poomsae Seminar with GM Park, Hae Man, we did Kibon Joonbi the exact same way as we learned at Kukkiwon. There are however, several different Joonbi positions: Koryo has its own, Pyongwon, ChonKwon, and Hansoo use another, and Ilyo uses yet another.
Miles
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information03_03.jsp
I previously was taught that my feet were to be shoulder-width apart and to thrust the fists out. Getting into the correct Joonbi position was one of the first things GM Lee, Chong Kwan went over with us.
At a recent Poomsae Seminar with GM Park, Hae Man, we did Kibon Joonbi the exact same way as we learned at Kukkiwon. There are however, several different Joonbi positions: Koryo has its own, Pyongwon, ChonKwon, and Hansoo use another, and Ilyo uses yet another.
Miles
Here's the basic rundown from my former Moo Duk Kwon class in regards to jhoon-bi
-from per-oh, hands come to fists at solar plexus and shoot out in front of you. You should hear a pop in the sleeves of your dobok, which has always been personally satisfying. My former instructor said it should look like your are pushing a push-mower. I always found that elbows bowed outwards with fists together look impressive, but I am a guy so....
-your feet should move about shoulder width apart as soon as your hands do
-your body and knees should be as straight as possible and should display confidence to instructors/judges before beginning poomse or koryo
I was always told to practice jhoon-bi until your hand and foot movements are crisp and insync. just my two cents. Take care and God bless
Erik H
-from per-oh, hands come to fists at solar plexus and shoot out in front of you. You should hear a pop in the sleeves of your dobok, which has always been personally satisfying. My former instructor said it should look like your are pushing a push-mower. I always found that elbows bowed outwards with fists together look impressive, but I am a guy so....
-your feet should move about shoulder width apart as soon as your hands do
-your body and knees should be as straight as possible and should display confidence to instructors/judges before beginning poomse or koryo
I was always told to practice jhoon-bi until your hand and foot movements are crisp and insync. just my two cents. Take care and God bless
Erik H
Last Fearner
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monkey said:
Master Stoker made accurate corrections to this, but I will elaborate a bit, and make one other correction.
The term "Junbi" is an exact spelling of the Korean word 준비. Over the past several decades, many non-Korean speaking Taekwondoists have tried to "listen" to their Korean Instructors, and write down these terms, and many organizations publish their own attempts, thus spelling will vary (Jun-be, Jun-bee, Joon-bi, Joon-be, Joon-bee, etc.) Most are acceptable, but attempt to get English speaking people to say the correct sounds (seldom works).
Junbi (준비
means "ready" in the Korean language. It is used in Korean Martial Art to indicate any "ready position." It is more of a command to "get ready." To be precise, one should call the ready stances "Junbi Seogi." The fists in front of the waist, with the feet hip's width apart is the "basic ready position." This is also called "Gibon Junbi Seogi" (Basic Ready Stance). It is used to begin basic floor exercises (gibon undong), forms practice (Poomsae), and one-step sparring (Han-bo or Il-bo gyorugi). Forms often have various Ready Positions (feet together or apart, knees straight or bent, hands open or closed, hands high, middle, low, or to the side. The meaning of these posistions will vary by instructor, or organization, and are often nothing more than a variety to indicate advanced forms with some philosophical or historical attachment.Attention, in Korean, is 차려 (Cha Ryeo) This too has many spelling variations, and is most often mispronounced. "Charyeo" is the command to assume an attention position. The "attention stance" itself should be called "Charyeo Seogi."
The term "Baro" (바로
means to correct, make right, or straighten. It is used in Taekwondo to mean to "return" to the ready stance, or starting position.The term for rest is "Shwi" (쉬
, often spelled "Shiut" and pronounced a variety of ways. It means to "rest," or "relax," and is used in a similar fashion as the military command (remain in position, but allowed to turn around, make adjustments, wipe sweat, etc.CM D.J. Eisenhart
Last Fearner
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MSUTKD said:
Yes, sir - I believe you are correct because I have seen them spelled and pronounced the ways you posted above. However, in my haste to post a reply, I attempted to do a quick check of my home dictionary (Dong A's) and the online "zkorean.com." Neither one spelled these two terms the way I thought they should (the way you suggested).
I am used to the Romanized spelling of 차렷 as being "Charyeot," and pronouncing it with the ending "T," but I could find no verification of that spelling. Both my sources provided the 차려 for the meaning of "to come to attention." I wonder if it is a verb transitive/intransitive, or noun difference. Perhaps you can clear that up. Do you have a written source that places the ㅅ at the end?
http://www.zkorean.com/dictionary/ke/%C2%F7%B7%C1%C0%DA%BC%BC%B8%A6
As for "rest," or "at ease," I could not verify this online, but my "Dong-A's" dictionary has it spelled as 쉬엇 and I am used to the translation of "shwiut" or "shwieot."
If this is going too far off topic, we can start a thread about the hanguk mal for these terms.
Thank you
Last Fearner
tkdgirl said:
To get back to your original question (although I found the linguistic discussions fascinating) some of them have meanings and some don't. Chun-bi (which is how I've always seen "jun-bi" spelled) means "ready stance". There are multiple ready stances in TKD. The most common, with your hands in fists in front of your belt, is called "ready stance" or, more properly and less commonly "parallel ready stance", referring to the placement of both the feet and hands in parallel positions. The variants have specific names in both English and Korean, some of which are descriptive of the stance, and some of which are descriptive of the position. For the sake of my transliteration skills, I'm going to stick with English.
"except the hands are open and as I'm about to take my first step, it's a strike to the groin area."
If this is the one I'm thinking it is, it is called "close parallel ready stance type C". The reason I'm not sure is that when we do it, the fingertips of both hands cross, with the left hand on top, rather than just being extended. The first pattern we use it in - Hwa-Rang - has an initial movement that extends the way you describe, except that it's higher, so I'm thinking that this is the same chun-bi position. Also, the feet are together, not apart, touching from toes to heels - thus "close" (not "closed", although the common speculation is that that was a translation error). I'll get into detail in a minute.
"The other form is my left hand is at my waist in a fist with my right hand covering the knuckles."
This one is somewhat different from the stance we do, in that the left hand is on top, and there is a philosophical reason for this. In many Asian cultures, begining with the right side is unlucky (for example, stepping into someone's home with the right foot is an omen of bad luck) or it is confrontational. Therefore, placing the left hand over the right would be a sign of peacefulness. I realize others may have different interpretations, but this is the one I've been taught. This stance, with the left hand on top, and the feet touching as described above, is called "close parallel ready stance Type B".
There are 4 types of parallel ready stance beyond the basic one - types A, B, C, and D, which refer to the hand positions, as the feet remain in a parallel stance. They all have the feet touching from toes to heels, and the hands go as follows:
Type A: right fist covered by left hand, held with the top knuckle of the left hand at eye level, thumbs inside (toward the face). The hands are 15 cm from the face.
Type B: right fist covered by left hand, held at navel level, thumbs up. The hands are 10 cm from the body.
Type C: both hands are straight, in a knife hand, with the wrists straight also. The fingertips of the left index and middle finger rest on top of the fingertips of the right index and middle finger. The hands are 5 cm from the body.
Type D: both hands are in loose fists, with elbows bent 25 degrees, hands somewhat to the sides of the body, as if performing a low block with each hand (this one's a little harder to describe).
There is no philosophical rationale for any of these, except the part about the left hand covering the right, that I am aware of... but my instructor gave me an assignment to research chun-bi and charyot positions last Wednesday, so I'm sure I'll have more information soon.
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- #15
Thanks everyone for your responses, and now I understand better. Kacey- you and I have the same "start- offs" that you describe. For some reason, it's easier for me to just do them than to describe them by typing. And thanks, LastFearner for providing info as to where you used to get the spelling and terminology.
Okay, here's what I got when I did my research for my sahbum - the Encyclopedia referred to is Gen. Choi's Encyclopedia of Taekwon-Do, in various editions (as noted). Sorry it's so long - there was a lot of information there.
1965 Condensed Encyclopedia pg 138
Ready stance (chunbi sogi): There are many ready stances, of which the parallel, open and close ready stances are exclusively used in this part.
* Ready stance is not a direct part of the action; rather it gives a contemplative moment for moving into action.
P.R. (parallel ready) Stance (narani chunbi sogi): is just a parallel stance with both fists brought naturally over the abdomen.
1. Distance between fists is about 2 and 3 away from abdomen.
2. Distance between elbows and floating ribs is about 4.
3. Dont extend the elbow to the side more than necessary.
4. Hold the upper arms forward about 30 degrees while bending the forearms about 40 degrees upward.
O.R. (open ready) Stance (palcha chunbi sogi): This is nothing but an open stance with both fists brought naturally over the thighs. This stance is seldom used due to the looseness of the body and muscles.
C.R. (close ready) Stance (moa chunbi sogi); is classified generally into types A, B, and C (photos shows feet together and touching from toes to heel).
Type A: Distance between philtrum and fist is about 8.
Type B: Distance between fist and navel is about 6.
Type C: Distance between hands and abdomen is about 4.
1988 Condensed Encyclopedia pages 80 83
Though there are many ready stances, parallel, walking, sitting, L-, X-, close and bending ready stances are exclusively used in the fundamental and pattern exercises. The ready stance is not a direct part of any action. It merely positions a student before he begins his motions or allows time for concentration of spirit.
Attention Stance (Charyot Sogi)
This is an attention position used before and after each exercise.
1. Feet form a 45 degrees angle.
2. Drop the fists down naturally, bending the elbows slightly.
3. The fists are clenched slightly.
4. Eyes face the front slightly above the horizontal line.
Bow Posture (Kyong Ye Jase)
1. Bend the body 15 degrees forward.
2. Keep eyes fixed on opponents eyes (photos show bend from hips, with legs perpendicular to floor, eyes forward as correct; shows weight inclining back at the buttocks, head down as incorrect)
Parallel Ready Stance (Narani Junbi Sogi)
This is just a parallel stance with both fists brought naturally over the abdomen.
1. The distance between fists is about five centimeters and seven centimeters away from the abdomen.
2. The distance between the elbows and the floating ribs is about 10 centimeters
3. Do not extend the elbow to the side more than necessary.
4. Hold the upper arms forward 30 degrees while bending the forearms 40 degrees upward.
Open Ready Stance (Palja Junbi Sogi)
This is nothing but an open stance with both fists brought naturally forward over the thighs.
This stance, however, is seldom used due to the looseness of the body and muscles (front view photo shows feet turned in [toes inside heel] and knees pointed in slightly person in picture appears knock-kneed)
Sitting Ready Stance ( Annun Junbi Sogi)
This is primarily used for sidestepping exercise. The position of the hands is the same as in a walking ready stance (photos show sitting stance with palms down to thighs, elbows slightly bent to keep forearms parallel to thighs).
Close Ready Stance (Moa Junbi Sogi)
It is classified generally into types A, B, C and D (photos shows feet together and touching from toes to heel).
Type A: The distance between the philtrum and the fists is about 30 centimeters (photo shows right hand in loose fist with left hand on top).
Type B: The distance between the fists and the navel is about 15 centimeters (photo shows right hand in loose fist with left hand on top).
Type C: The distance between the hands and the abdomen is about 10 centimeters (photo shows hands extended [knife hand] with first three fingers of left hand on top of first three fingers of right hand, left fingertips on right ring finger, with hands at a diagonal, wrists straight)
Type D: The distance between the fists and thigh is about 30 centimeters (photo shows arms bent at the elbows and fists held away from the thighs; picture appears to show approximately same bend as walking ready stance).
Walking Ready Stance (Gunnun Junbi Sogi)
1. The distance between the fists and thigh is about 30 centimeters.
2. The elbow should be bent 30 degrees (photos show sitting stance with palms down to thighs, elbows slightly bent to keep forearms parallel to thighs).
Bending Ready Stance (Guburyo Junbi Sogi)
It is classified into type A and B. When standing with a right foot executing a left forearm guarding block. It is called a right bending ready stance and vice versa.
Type A: It is principally used for a preparatory position of side piercing and side thrusting kicks (photo shows supporting leg bent forward at knee, with raised foot placed on the knee, sole to the inside of the other leg; hands are in a middle guarding block over the raised leg).
Type B: It is a preparatory position of back piercing kick.
1. The distance between the fists and thigh is about 25 centimeters.
2. The elbow should be bent 30 degrees (photos show knee bent forward as in Type A, with raised foot parallel to the floor; hands are in the same position as walking ready stance).
Warrior Ready Stance (Moosa Junbi Sogi)
It is classified into types A and B. When both hands are placed at the left side of the waist, it is called Type A, and called Type B when placed at the right (photos show open parallel stance, with one fist on the waist, palm up, and the other hand, flat/knife hand and thumb up, covering the front of the fist).
L-Ready Stance there is no text accompanying this stance; the picture shows an L-stance, with the hands in a low guarding block (side view) or low block parallel to each leg (front view).
X-Ready Stance there is no text accompanying this stance; the picture shows an X-stance, with the hands in the same position as walking ready stance.
Complete Encyclopedia, 1993, Volume II, pages 156 163
Other than heading the section Ready Stance (Junbi Sogi) and correction of some typographical errors, this version contains identical information to the 1988 Condensed Encyclopedia.
1965 Condensed Encyclopedia pg 138
Ready stance (chunbi sogi): There are many ready stances, of which the parallel, open and close ready stances are exclusively used in this part.
* Ready stance is not a direct part of the action; rather it gives a contemplative moment for moving into action.
P.R. (parallel ready) Stance (narani chunbi sogi): is just a parallel stance with both fists brought naturally over the abdomen.
1. Distance between fists is about 2 and 3 away from abdomen.
2. Distance between elbows and floating ribs is about 4.
3. Dont extend the elbow to the side more than necessary.
4. Hold the upper arms forward about 30 degrees while bending the forearms about 40 degrees upward.
O.R. (open ready) Stance (palcha chunbi sogi): This is nothing but an open stance with both fists brought naturally over the thighs. This stance is seldom used due to the looseness of the body and muscles.
C.R. (close ready) Stance (moa chunbi sogi); is classified generally into types A, B, and C (photos shows feet together and touching from toes to heel).
Type A: Distance between philtrum and fist is about 8.
Type B: Distance between fist and navel is about 6.
Type C: Distance between hands and abdomen is about 4.
1988 Condensed Encyclopedia pages 80 83
Though there are many ready stances, parallel, walking, sitting, L-, X-, close and bending ready stances are exclusively used in the fundamental and pattern exercises. The ready stance is not a direct part of any action. It merely positions a student before he begins his motions or allows time for concentration of spirit.
Attention Stance (Charyot Sogi)
This is an attention position used before and after each exercise.
1. Feet form a 45 degrees angle.
2. Drop the fists down naturally, bending the elbows slightly.
3. The fists are clenched slightly.
4. Eyes face the front slightly above the horizontal line.
Bow Posture (Kyong Ye Jase)
1. Bend the body 15 degrees forward.
2. Keep eyes fixed on opponents eyes (photos show bend from hips, with legs perpendicular to floor, eyes forward as correct; shows weight inclining back at the buttocks, head down as incorrect)
Parallel Ready Stance (Narani Junbi Sogi)
This is just a parallel stance with both fists brought naturally over the abdomen.
1. The distance between fists is about five centimeters and seven centimeters away from the abdomen.
2. The distance between the elbows and the floating ribs is about 10 centimeters
3. Do not extend the elbow to the side more than necessary.
4. Hold the upper arms forward 30 degrees while bending the forearms 40 degrees upward.
Open Ready Stance (Palja Junbi Sogi)
This is nothing but an open stance with both fists brought naturally forward over the thighs.
This stance, however, is seldom used due to the looseness of the body and muscles (front view photo shows feet turned in [toes inside heel] and knees pointed in slightly person in picture appears knock-kneed)
Sitting Ready Stance ( Annun Junbi Sogi)
This is primarily used for sidestepping exercise. The position of the hands is the same as in a walking ready stance (photos show sitting stance with palms down to thighs, elbows slightly bent to keep forearms parallel to thighs).
Close Ready Stance (Moa Junbi Sogi)
It is classified generally into types A, B, C and D (photos shows feet together and touching from toes to heel).
Type A: The distance between the philtrum and the fists is about 30 centimeters (photo shows right hand in loose fist with left hand on top).
Type B: The distance between the fists and the navel is about 15 centimeters (photo shows right hand in loose fist with left hand on top).
Type C: The distance between the hands and the abdomen is about 10 centimeters (photo shows hands extended [knife hand] with first three fingers of left hand on top of first three fingers of right hand, left fingertips on right ring finger, with hands at a diagonal, wrists straight)
Type D: The distance between the fists and thigh is about 30 centimeters (photo shows arms bent at the elbows and fists held away from the thighs; picture appears to show approximately same bend as walking ready stance).
Walking Ready Stance (Gunnun Junbi Sogi)
1. The distance between the fists and thigh is about 30 centimeters.
2. The elbow should be bent 30 degrees (photos show sitting stance with palms down to thighs, elbows slightly bent to keep forearms parallel to thighs).
Bending Ready Stance (Guburyo Junbi Sogi)
It is classified into type A and B. When standing with a right foot executing a left forearm guarding block. It is called a right bending ready stance and vice versa.
Type A: It is principally used for a preparatory position of side piercing and side thrusting kicks (photo shows supporting leg bent forward at knee, with raised foot placed on the knee, sole to the inside of the other leg; hands are in a middle guarding block over the raised leg).
Type B: It is a preparatory position of back piercing kick.
1. The distance between the fists and thigh is about 25 centimeters.
2. The elbow should be bent 30 degrees (photos show knee bent forward as in Type A, with raised foot parallel to the floor; hands are in the same position as walking ready stance).
Warrior Ready Stance (Moosa Junbi Sogi)
It is classified into types A and B. When both hands are placed at the left side of the waist, it is called Type A, and called Type B when placed at the right (photos show open parallel stance, with one fist on the waist, palm up, and the other hand, flat/knife hand and thumb up, covering the front of the fist).
L-Ready Stance there is no text accompanying this stance; the picture shows an L-stance, with the hands in a low guarding block (side view) or low block parallel to each leg (front view).
X-Ready Stance there is no text accompanying this stance; the picture shows an X-stance, with the hands in the same position as walking ready stance.
Complete Encyclopedia, 1993, Volume II, pages 156 163
Other than heading the section Ready Stance (Junbi Sogi) and correction of some typographical errors, this version contains identical information to the 1988 Condensed Encyclopedia.
