Gun training

[_Simon_]

I miss that guy.

(..... I highly recommend some of his newer vids I just jumped on to see........... )

 

[jobo]

Jeez where on earth did you get a school from....you seem to be making up your own stories as you go along here....what're you on about gun arts....it's Krav Maga not a gun art......seriously? Your talking about the risks of people dying in car accidents from the police getting there....anyway we didn't have to hide them as I said we had complete full permission and there was no law against what was happening but we just hid it out of common courtesy....the whole point is it wasn't a proper public place it was a very secluded place where no traffic was around and only a very small number of people would even think of going anywhere near that area....maybe you should cut out the assumptions and stick with facts just saying

it's you that raised the possibility that the police may be called,,
if you think there is even the remotest possibly of some one phoninbg and reporting a kidnap or a robbery attempt, and the dispatch of trigger happy swat team, then what you are doing is at best fool hardy, judging by the latest police shooting, standing there holding a machine gun is likely to end badly, it seems unlikely they will wait till you explain the misunderstanding

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I miss that guy.

i mean, he did have a point with using the nerf guns as a target to disarm at least.

Anyway @Headhunter What disarms (if you did disarms) did you do? And do you do the ones where you try and push the gun out of battery/stop a automatic from cycling properly so it doesn't feed another round.

I also wouldn't want to try a revolver disarm given half of them would probably destroy your hand if shot while grasped. (given the whole gap in the cylinder issue )

 

[wab25]

Jeez where on earth did you get a school from....you seem to be making up your own stories as you go along here....what're you on about gun arts....it's Krav Maga not a gun art......seriously? Your talking about the risks of people dying in car accidents from the police getting there....anyway we didn't have to hide them as I said we had complete full permission and there was no law against what was happening but we just hid it out of common courtesy....the whole point is it wasn't a proper public place it was a very secluded place where no traffic was around and only a very small number of people would even think of going anywhere near that area....maybe you should cut out the assumptions and stick with facts just saying

I get it. You are not worried about what might happen. Why should you be?

I come at this forum as being a place where lots of people may be reading this stuff. Some may even try things they read about here. I have. I would hate for someone to read this thread and think "as long as I hide the guns when I see people, this is ok to do." Apparently, I am in the minority here... so feel free disregard any thoughts about consequences. I just hope that folks reading this, and thinking its a great idea to try, will think about the consequences.

Again, you have not told us exactly where you did this, so I don't know what is around. There might not have been a school for miles around the place you used. But, I can't know that. More importantly, I can't know that there is no school near where someone reading this might try it. But I guess I am being too paranoid, as people never missunderstand what they see... those umbrella incidents must have been fake...

Cops Who Shot Boy Waited to Get Medical Help, Suit Claims

Surveillance footage from the Nov. 22 shooting shows that the boy was shot within two seconds of the police patrol car arriving at the scene, near a recreational center.

"Defendants Loehmann and Garmback confronted him in a surprise fashion and fired multiple shots at him without any adequate investigation," the lawsuit states. "Four minutes passed without any medical care being provided to Tamir, who lay on the ground alive."

The police were responding to a call from someone who said that there was an individual waving what appeared to be a gun at the playground. While the 911 caller mentioned the gun could be fake and that the individual may be a juvenile, that information was not communicated to the responding officers.

The law abiding citizen called and said it was most likely a kid with a toy, but wanted investigation... that info was never given to the responding officers, only a person was waving a gun at a playground.

A Cop Fires. A Boy Drops His Gun. It’s a Toy | Guns of New York

These things must not be of concern to people here... But, they concern me. When I train with weapons, it does not take much to make sure it is done in private. In my opinion, there are already too many people with toy guns being shot and too many first responders getting injured or killed when responding to real incidents. I wouldn't want to add to either category. But, if that doesn't bother you... then don't worry about it.

 

[wab25]

I also wouldn't want to try a revolver disarm given half of them would probably destroy your hand if shot while grasped. (given the whole gap in the cylinder issue )

If you are worried about the damage done to your hand, by the hot gases or by the slide, then you are worried about the wrong end of the gun and shouldn't even attempt it. We can fix your hand... we can't fix dead.

 

[lklawson]

Gun disarm threads always amuse me. But this one is particularly amusing because of the direction it took with the public training aspect.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[drop bear]

I get it. You are not worried about what might happen. Why should you be?

I come at this forum as being a place where lots of people may be reading this stuff. Some may even try things they read about here. I have. I would hate for someone to read this thread and think "as long as I hide the guns when I see people, this is ok to do." Apparently, I am in the minority here... so feel free disregard any thoughts about consequences. I just hope that folks reading this, and thinking its a great idea to try, will think about the consequences.

Again, you have not told us exactly where you did this, so I don't know what is around. There might not have been a school for miles around the place you used. But, I can't know that. More importantly, I can't know that there is no school near where someone reading this might try it. But I guess I am being too paranoid, as people never missunderstand what they see... those umbrella incidents must have been fake...

Cops Who Shot Boy Waited to Get Medical Help, Suit Claims


The law abiding citizen called and said it was most likely a kid with a toy, but wanted investigation... that info was never given to the responding officers, only a person was waving a gun at a playground.

A Cop Fires. A Boy Drops His Gun. It’s a Toy | Guns of New York

These things must not be of concern to people here... But, they concern me. When I train with weapons, it does not take much to make sure it is done in private. In my opinion, there are already too many people with toy guns being shot and too many first responders getting injured or killed when responding to real incidents. I wouldn't want to add to either category. But, if that doesn't bother you... then don't worry about it.

Different country though. Cops are less shooty.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Gun disarm threads always amuse me. But this one is particularly amusing because of the direction it took with the public training aspect.

When students ask about gun defense, the first thing I point out is the whole issue of range.
When they ask what my favorite defense is against, say, a knife or club, I tell them "a gun."

 

[Buka]

 

[lklawson]

Different country though. Cops are less shooty.

The image that cops in the U.S. are prone to shoot is not really true. Cops shoot suspects very seldom. The rules of engagement are very strict for most and there is a growing, and well known, trend for cops to tend to disengage or wait far too long. It's called "The Ferguson Effect."

Ferguson effect - Wikipedia
https://nypost.com/2017/01/11/survey-shows-ferguson-effect-is-having-a-real-impact-on-policing/
'Ferguson effect': 72% of U.S. cops reluctant to make stops

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

The image that cops in the U.S. are prone to shoot is not really true. Cops shoot suspects very seldom. The rules of engagement are very strict for most and there is a growing, and well known, trend for cops to tend to disengage or wait far too long. It's called "The Ferguson Effect."

Ferguson effect - Wikipedia
https://nypost.com/2017/01/11/survey-shows-ferguson-effect-is-having-a-real-impact-on-policing/
'Ferguson effect': 72% of U.S. cops reluctant to make stops

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

In relation to who?

Police firearm use by country - Wikipedia

Headhunter is UK. Which is about 3 a year.
As opposed to a thousand a year?

 

[lklawson]

In relation to who?

In relation to the U.S. population of 322,762,018

Making police shootings at 0.000003383 per capita in 2016. According to our Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2015 there were 53,469,300 police contacts (both police initiated and non-police initiated). So out of the 53,469,300 police contacts there were only 1092 "shootings" of any kind, even before separating out the Justified from accidental/negligent/unjustified. That makes the number of ALL police shootings at 0.000020423 per capita contact. I think I'm justified in my claim that U.S. cops shoot suspects very seldom. 0.00020423% of the time... I like my odds.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Deleted member 39746]

View attachment 21925

Ah submarine defence and anti submarine weapons and doctrine, i like it.


I personally like weapon disarms, just because i have come to the realization they are there to give you say a 70% chance of dying as opposed to a 100% chance of dying, well maybe 90%, pending the quality of firearm and ammunition used.

Meant to be used as a means to give you a chance to fight back and a chance to not get killed or seriously wounded as opposed to no chance at all. I do and i think other people forget they should be used like that and treated like that.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

i mean, he did have a point with using the nerf guns as a target to disarm at least.

Anyway @Headhunter What disarms (if you did disarms) did you do? And do you do the ones where you try and push the gun out of battery/stop a automatic from cycling properly so it doesn't feed another round.

I also wouldn't want to try a revolver disarm given half of them would probably destroy your hand if shot while grasped. (given the whole gap in the cylinder issue )

See my other comment. Nerf guns may give an unrealistic sense of confidence, which is more harmful than helpful.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

See my other comment. Nerf guns may give an unrealistic sense of confidence, which is more harmful than helpful.

I think any practice method would give a unrealistic sense of confidence, the only way you wont have that is if you get shot or get a good pain response if you mess it up. (if you get that electric vest which works like laser tag so the guns actually shock you when you are hit)

 

[drop bear]

In relation to the U.S. population of 322,762,018

Making police shootings at 0.000003383 per capita in 2016. According to our Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2015 there were 53,469,300 police contacts (both police initiated and non-police initiated). So out of the 53,469,300 police contacts there were only 1092 "shootings" of any kind, even before separating out the Justified from accidental/negligent/unjustified. That makes the number of ALL police shootings at 0.000020423 per capita contact. I think I'm justified in my claim that U.S. cops shoot suspects very seldom. 0.00020423% of the time... I like my odds.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

So at an average of 6 times the population of the U.K. who shoot about 4 people a year. Makes the comparison about.

24 shootings vs a thousand

I will reevaluate my opinion from less shooty. To the U.K. is almost non existantly shooty when compared to the astronomically shooty that is conducted by police in America.

(I don't know if the amount of police contacts to getting shot by police is in the U.K. but I would bet money that America would me more shooty in that regard as well.)

 

[drop bear]

See my other comment. Nerf guns may give an unrealistic sense of confidence, which is more harmful than helpful.

Depends. You would use gun defense like a fire extinguisher anyway. (Which is designed to help you leave a burning building)

So most people would come to the decision of they are going to get shot and have to act.

And so the more confidence at that point the better.

There is a soldiering concept called assault in to ambush.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So at an average of 6 times the population of the U.K. who shoot about 4 people a year. Makes the comparison about.

24 shootings vs a thousand

I will reevaluate my opinion from less shooty. To the U.K. is almost non existantly shooty when compared to the astronomically shooty that is conducted by police in America.

(I don't know if the amount of police contacts to getting shot by police is in the U.K. but I would bet money that America would me more shooty in that regard as well.)

I think a fairer statement would be that the US is very little shooty, and the UK is even less so.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Depends. You would use gun defense like a fire extinguisher anyway. (Which is designed to help you leave a burning building)

So most people would come to the decision of they are going to get shot and have to act.

And so the more confidence at that point the better.

There is a soldiering concept called assault in to ambush.

Yeah, but that's not the confidence I'm referring to. I'm referring to the people who are able to get out of range/avoid a nerf gun while doing their disarm, and as a result think they can do it with an actual gun. So instead of complying to the guy pointing a gun, asking for their wallet, they attack the person.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but that's not the confidence I'm referring to. I'm referring to the people who are able to get out of range/avoid a nerf gun while doing their disarm, and as a result think they can do it with an actual gun. So instead of complying to the guy pointing a gun, asking for their wallet, they attack the person.

How do troops react to an ambush when they can't see the enemy?