Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
I thought it was pretty cool. Need to check it out. Enjoy!
GM Pellegrini in Black Belt!
- Thread starter Hollywood1340
- Start date
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Just another self-promotional by a commercial entity. Can't see anything special in this article I have not seen plenty in many other issues.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Best Wishes,
Bruce
How was it self promotional?? If that was the case, then everybody that has a write up in a magazine could be guilty of the same thing right?
Mike
Mike
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Mike:
Absolutely, 100% right on the money!!! Ask yourself how much more you know about Pelligrini, his art, the manner in which he teaches, his curriculum, the rationale for the choices he has made regarding his managerial style and so forth. In other words how much more do you know about this guy as a person and a member of the KMA community? Now start comparing the articles for the last two years. Lets face it, that magazine is the "Glamour" magazine of the MA community---- pages of advertising glued together with insipid articles. Even TAEKWONDO TIMES does a better job!! Hell, Pacific Rim does a better job! Take a look at JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS sometime. You read the articles and you walk away knowing something. After reading Pelligrinis' article you know that he has an opinion and he is the head of his own organization that he thinks is something great. Well, NO KIDDING! How many other folks have come through that magazine and said the same thing?
I know quite a few KMA practitioners who wish that their arts would be taken more seriously, or given more regard. Guess what, folks, this AIN'T the way to do it!!.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Absolutely, 100% right on the money!!! Ask yourself how much more you know about Pelligrini, his art, the manner in which he teaches, his curriculum, the rationale for the choices he has made regarding his managerial style and so forth. In other words how much more do you know about this guy as a person and a member of the KMA community? Now start comparing the articles for the last two years. Lets face it, that magazine is the "Glamour" magazine of the MA community---- pages of advertising glued together with insipid articles. Even TAEKWONDO TIMES does a better job!! Hell, Pacific Rim does a better job! Take a look at JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS sometime. You read the articles and you walk away knowing something. After reading Pelligrinis' article you know that he has an opinion and he is the head of his own organization that he thinks is something great. Well, NO KIDDING! How many other folks have come through that magazine and said the same thing?
I know quite a few KMA practitioners who wish that their arts would be taken more seriously, or given more regard. Guess what, folks, this AIN'T the way to do it!!.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12291
Black Belt is more and more about promoting videos, like Budo Intl. (the worst offender).
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12291
Black Belt is more and more about promoting videos, like Budo Intl. (the worst offender).
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Who is BUDO INTERNATIONAL? Is that the one out of the UK?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Inquiring minds want to know.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I missed the article in BB. Which issue is it in maybe I just haven't seen it on the stands yet This area is sadly lacking in Martial Arts related magizines
March 2004 issue of BB
Mike
You're correct on many points. BB does have ALOT of promos! Second, I really dont know too much about the KMA due to the fact that I dont train in them. I have met JP 1 time, and have read many articles about him. I did however, like the way he taught and what he has done for the martial arts world overall with his style of Hapkido. When I was at the seminar, he was teaching things that blended VERY well with what I had already trained in. His approach was quick, simple and to the point! IMO, I think that alot of times, he gets bashed because he made some changes, and there are MANY people out there that cant or wont accept that! I see the same thing with Kenpo, which I have trained in for 17yrs. There are things in that art that IMO, are not that impressive, and there are things that IMO, should be added, such as some grappling. I constantly get heat from the "die hards" about my views, but you know what....I really dont care what they think. We all train for different reasons and have different goals. My goals are obviously VERY different from theirs. Does that make me any less of a Kenpoist? I dont believe it does. Does it make JP and less of a Hapkido Inst. I dont believe so. Just like in Kenpo, you have many different Inst. who teach in different ways. I suppose the most important thing that should be looked at is, does his art get the job done? Can someone learn effective things? Is he a good Inst.? IMO, if you answer yes to any of those, then he's doing his job.
Mike
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Mike:
I think that the point you bring up has been hashed over quite a bit, on many occasions and in many places. For myself I have some pretty strong opinions about Pelligrini and what he does, etc., etc.,. Just can't bring mysle to go down that road one more time. He seems to serve a purpose and when people want what he provides--- well--- thats where they go.
The point that I was wanting to make is that BLACK BELT magazine has shown a penchant for providing only the most superficial and poorly researched material available. Over the years they tend to exploit whatever the current trend in various arts are and pay very little attention to proofing the material for glaring mistakes. Among some of their misrepresentations are articles on Kuk Sool, HwaRangdo, and Hapkido in which the same old songs are republished over and over again without benefit of supporting documentation, citations or references. In short, if the guy is well-known and he says so, they print it. In like manner it is not unusual to see them reprinting old chestnuts like "kung-fu (sic) began with Bodhidarma" and "Bruce Lee is the greatest martial artist who ever lived". What you won't find are articles on the life, times and philosophy of Judo greats such as Anton Geesink and Mifune'. You won't find articles on the comparitive characteristics of different sword traditions. You won't find articles which track on the growing embarrassments in the TaeKwondo community and its organizations. Nothing provocative, in depth or deeply researched. It would not surprise me in the least to find out, years later, that there actually was no BLACK BELT magazine but only a front for one of John Gradens' original concepts! :rofl:
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I think that the point you bring up has been hashed over quite a bit, on many occasions and in many places. For myself I have some pretty strong opinions about Pelligrini and what he does, etc., etc.,. Just can't bring mysle to go down that road one more time. He seems to serve a purpose and when people want what he provides--- well--- thats where they go.
The point that I was wanting to make is that BLACK BELT magazine has shown a penchant for providing only the most superficial and poorly researched material available. Over the years they tend to exploit whatever the current trend in various arts are and pay very little attention to proofing the material for glaring mistakes. Among some of their misrepresentations are articles on Kuk Sool, HwaRangdo, and Hapkido in which the same old songs are republished over and over again without benefit of supporting documentation, citations or references. In short, if the guy is well-known and he says so, they print it. In like manner it is not unusual to see them reprinting old chestnuts like "kung-fu (sic) began with Bodhidarma" and "Bruce Lee is the greatest martial artist who ever lived". What you won't find are articles on the life, times and philosophy of Judo greats such as Anton Geesink and Mifune'. You won't find articles on the comparitive characteristics of different sword traditions. You won't find articles which track on the growing embarrassments in the TaeKwondo community and its organizations. Nothing provocative, in depth or deeply researched. It would not surprise me in the least to find out, years later, that there actually was no BLACK BELT magazine but only a front for one of John Gradens' original concepts! :rofl:
Best Wishes,
Bruce
bdparsons
Black Belt
"Does it make JP any less of a Hapkido Inst. I dont believe so."
The issue is whether John Pellegrini was ever a "Hapkido instructor" to begin with. The ability to include basic joint locks into a mix-match of elements from various arts and stick a marketable name on it (Hapkido) does not a Hapkido instructor (or master) make. At least have the backbone to call what you do something unique. Excellent marketing to a gullible public. In my opinion it does make him less of a person.
Respects,
Bill Parsons
The issue is whether John Pellegrini was ever a "Hapkido instructor" to begin with. The ability to include basic joint locks into a mix-match of elements from various arts and stick a marketable name on it (Hapkido) does not a Hapkido instructor (or master) make. At least have the backbone to call what you do something unique. Excellent marketing to a gullible public. In my opinion it does make him less of a person.
Respects,
Bill Parsons
JP never trained under a Hapkido Inst.???? Again, I dont follow the KMA, but I thought that the guy he trained under was doing hapkido.
Mike
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
Seriously, you really thought that Pellegrini was Hapkido? PLEASE! He was given an HONORARY 1st Dan by Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser because Pellegrini begged him to help salvage his flagging TaeKwonDo Program. Prior to that, he had no grades in Hapkido at all.
According to the AHA, Pellegrini is unable to do many of the complex hand movements in Hapkido due to weakness and injury to his hands - so his "modification for modernization" are just his lack of physical ability.
Pellegrini then jumped to Myung, Kwang Sik (WHF) and PAID his was to 6th DAN - he received his rank at the same time as another questionable Hapkidoist named Guther Bauer - weekend warriors that got grades at a time I fear Myung might just have been looking for a cash infusion. I say this because having met and seen techniques of some "real" Myung 3rd Dans, Pellegrini does not at all seem to have absorbed any of the complex range of skills that Myung teaches. And he got a 6th Dan from Myung - maybe just a "Please get lost" grade...
Then, Pelligrini jumps to Seo, In Sun of the World Kido Federation - himself only a THIRD dan in Hapkido, and 9th in Kuk Sool Kon. He then awards Pelligrini Grandmaster Status in Hapkido (even though he is not ranked high enough in that art to do so) - Pelligrini, I believe, fully knowing he has limited knowledge of real Hapkido calls his stuff Combat Hapkido and says he has gotten rid of all the unneeded stuff. It is true enough that Combat Hapkido is limited in scope, but not because Pellegrini "selected" techniques - he just never knew them!
His "Hapkido Career" did not start until 1990ish - Myung in 1993 -4 then BLAMMO Grandmaster in 1999 - 2000ish.
Pellegrini is the perfect example of all that is wrong with KMA in the US, when instructors allow belt hopping, and promote for the cash, the result is the "New but not New" garbage like Combat Hapkido.
Yep, the stuff sells, in the US when a person makes a hard task seem easy with a new formula, Americans jump at the chance, even if the results are less than spectacular - hey, the "job" still got done right? Simple methods to hard work rarely succeed - but in the US they are seem as gossple - look at Ron Popeel and Ronco - take a hard job, make it look done fast, even if halfa**, and poof, 10 million veggimatics will sell.
Make Hapkido look like it can be learned in weekend seminars with little practice - or pain - and poof giant organization in 3 years...pitiful.
BTW - Combat Hapkido - ain't that like saying "Blue blue"?
Pellegrini is just a tool (marketing that is).
My two cents.
Sincerely,
Kevin
Seriously, you really thought that Pellegrini was Hapkido? PLEASE! He was given an HONORARY 1st Dan by Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser because Pellegrini begged him to help salvage his flagging TaeKwonDo Program. Prior to that, he had no grades in Hapkido at all.
According to the AHA, Pellegrini is unable to do many of the complex hand movements in Hapkido due to weakness and injury to his hands - so his "modification for modernization" are just his lack of physical ability.
Pellegrini then jumped to Myung, Kwang Sik (WHF) and PAID his was to 6th DAN - he received his rank at the same time as another questionable Hapkidoist named Guther Bauer - weekend warriors that got grades at a time I fear Myung might just have been looking for a cash infusion. I say this because having met and seen techniques of some "real" Myung 3rd Dans, Pellegrini does not at all seem to have absorbed any of the complex range of skills that Myung teaches. And he got a 6th Dan from Myung - maybe just a "Please get lost" grade...
Then, Pelligrini jumps to Seo, In Sun of the World Kido Federation - himself only a THIRD dan in Hapkido, and 9th in Kuk Sool Kon. He then awards Pelligrini Grandmaster Status in Hapkido (even though he is not ranked high enough in that art to do so) - Pelligrini, I believe, fully knowing he has limited knowledge of real Hapkido calls his stuff Combat Hapkido and says he has gotten rid of all the unneeded stuff. It is true enough that Combat Hapkido is limited in scope, but not because Pellegrini "selected" techniques - he just never knew them!
His "Hapkido Career" did not start until 1990ish - Myung in 1993 -4 then BLAMMO Grandmaster in 1999 - 2000ish.
Pellegrini is the perfect example of all that is wrong with KMA in the US, when instructors allow belt hopping, and promote for the cash, the result is the "New but not New" garbage like Combat Hapkido.
Yep, the stuff sells, in the US when a person makes a hard task seem easy with a new formula, Americans jump at the chance, even if the results are less than spectacular - hey, the "job" still got done right? Simple methods to hard work rarely succeed - but in the US they are seem as gossple - look at Ron Popeel and Ronco - take a hard job, make it look done fast, even if halfa**, and poof, 10 million veggimatics will sell.
Make Hapkido look like it can be learned in weekend seminars with little practice - or pain - and poof giant organization in 3 years...pitiful.
BTW - Combat Hapkido - ain't that like saying "Blue blue"?
Pellegrini is just a tool (marketing that is).
My two cents.
Sincerely,
Kevin
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Mike:
"Doing" a Hapkido art and "studying" Hapkido are very different.
Pelligrini started his Hapkido experience with Mike Wollmerhauser and then rapidly shifted through a number of teachers in order to garner rank. He finally got an 8th dan from In Sun Seo through Seos' organization (World Kido Federation) because he (Pelligrini) had put together a large number of schools and 7th, 8th and 9th dans are often betowed as administrative, not technical, ranks in those cases. Pelligrini is a business man who teaches an amalgam of techniques from various sources and styles it a form of Hapkido. He is not the only person who does this. However, I would point out that if I studied Karate, Muay Thai, Penjat Silat and Taekwondo, mixed the various techniques and taught the result, I myself could not in good conscience call what I do "Taekwondo". Pelligrini is cut from different cloth. When looking for a more orthodox form of Hapkido there are some qualities that you may want to consider.
1.) Most hapkido arts (with one notable exception) usually trace themselves back to Choi Yong Sul even if through one of his students.
2.) Many but not all Hapkido arts teach their curriculums as Mu-Do or "martial arts systems" usually including weaponry who use reflects the same biomechanics as the emptyhand material.
3.) Many, but not all Hapkido arts rise through three levels of sophistication in their execution including yu sool, then hapki yu sool, then hapki sool--- in that order.
4.) Most if not all reputable schools align with a paticular teacher and reflect the material of that teacher. This is something like a career choice and part of the growth of character in Hapkido is resolving to stick with that teacher through thick and thin even if it is not always easy or self-serving.
5.) Most, if not all Hapkido traditions have rank and mat-hour requirements that one must meet in order to rise through the ranks with sufficient time to become competent in the art, its material, values and beliefs. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
"Doing" a Hapkido art and "studying" Hapkido are very different.
Pelligrini started his Hapkido experience with Mike Wollmerhauser and then rapidly shifted through a number of teachers in order to garner rank. He finally got an 8th dan from In Sun Seo through Seos' organization (World Kido Federation) because he (Pelligrini) had put together a large number of schools and 7th, 8th and 9th dans are often betowed as administrative, not technical, ranks in those cases. Pelligrini is a business man who teaches an amalgam of techniques from various sources and styles it a form of Hapkido. He is not the only person who does this. However, I would point out that if I studied Karate, Muay Thai, Penjat Silat and Taekwondo, mixed the various techniques and taught the result, I myself could not in good conscience call what I do "Taekwondo". Pelligrini is cut from different cloth. When looking for a more orthodox form of Hapkido there are some qualities that you may want to consider.
1.) Most hapkido arts (with one notable exception) usually trace themselves back to Choi Yong Sul even if through one of his students.
2.) Many but not all Hapkido arts teach their curriculums as Mu-Do or "martial arts systems" usually including weaponry who use reflects the same biomechanics as the emptyhand material.
3.) Many, but not all Hapkido arts rise through three levels of sophistication in their execution including yu sool, then hapki yu sool, then hapki sool--- in that order.
4.) Most if not all reputable schools align with a paticular teacher and reflect the material of that teacher. This is something like a career choice and part of the growth of character in Hapkido is resolving to stick with that teacher through thick and thin even if it is not always easy or self-serving.
5.) Most, if not all Hapkido traditions have rank and mat-hour requirements that one must meet in order to rise through the ranks with sufficient time to become competent in the art, its material, values and beliefs. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Bruce- Thanks for the reply.
Mike
OP
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #17
To see is to be decieved but to feel is to believe-Ed Parker I've bodied for GMP, and do not doubt is abilties. I've met him several times. It works for me.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear C :
I'm a pretty strong believer in following ones' guts. Just because I would not follow Pelligrinis' approach doesn't mean that it does not satisfy needs for other people. I mean, people could say the same thing about me, if it comes to that. Why, someone could ask, would I obsess about this little move or that bit of correction, this history or that tradition? Why be so darn anal about such things? I bet my answer might not be too far from Pelligrinis in as much as we both could say, "hey-- thats my take on it".
I tend to be pretty traditional, don't hold much with commercial approaches or cutting corners. 53 and I still get out on the mat and take my lumps from kids half my age. But I am not saying this is for everyone. Its my take on the Hapkido arts. Were I you and found that Pelligrini really fits your bill, I would stay with him and hold on tight. Some people can go their whole MA careers and not find a teacher that fits. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I'm a pretty strong believer in following ones' guts. Just because I would not follow Pelligrinis' approach doesn't mean that it does not satisfy needs for other people. I mean, people could say the same thing about me, if it comes to that. Why, someone could ask, would I obsess about this little move or that bit of correction, this history or that tradition? Why be so darn anal about such things? I bet my answer might not be too far from Pelligrinis in as much as we both could say, "hey-- thats my take on it".
I tend to be pretty traditional, don't hold much with commercial approaches or cutting corners. 53 and I still get out on the mat and take my lumps from kids half my age. But I am not saying this is for everyone. Its my take on the Hapkido arts. Were I you and found that Pelligrini really fits your bill, I would stay with him and hold on tight. Some people can go their whole MA careers and not find a teacher that fits. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
M
markulous
Guest
My Sifu trained with Pellegrini and showed me some of the stuff that he brought back and it's very useful. I honostly don't give a darn what he calls his art. Names don't mean much. If it's combat hapkido or rubber baby buggy bumpers. Albeit the latter is not that intimidating, if it kicks @$$ it kicks @$$.
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Markulous:
I appreciate your enthusiasm. I would add just one other spin on this.
Traditional Hapkido is taught within the context of being a Mu-Do and is heavily influenced by the Buddhist/Confucian ethos as laid out in the O-GAE (lit: "five tenents"). I feel that the technique is an important part of the Hapkido arts but it needs to be balanced with a value system that governs how and when the arts are applied. Whenever I have run into those schools which heavily emphacized practicality, it seems that values, ethics and guidelines tend to get nudged to one side. I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and shave their head and put on a saffron robe. Only that along with the belief that focuses on "whatever works" I believe there also needs to be as much focus on "whatever guides". FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I appreciate your enthusiasm. I would add just one other spin on this.
Traditional Hapkido is taught within the context of being a Mu-Do and is heavily influenced by the Buddhist/Confucian ethos as laid out in the O-GAE (lit: "five tenents"). I feel that the technique is an important part of the Hapkido arts but it needs to be balanced with a value system that governs how and when the arts are applied. Whenever I have run into those schools which heavily emphacized practicality, it seems that values, ethics and guidelines tend to get nudged to one side. I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and shave their head and put on a saffron robe. Only that along with the belief that focuses on "whatever works" I believe there also needs to be as much focus on "whatever guides". FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
