global warming all around

[billc]

While the north east U.S., and the rest of the country, experiences a fresh wave of global warming, I noticed this article about John Coleman one of the founders of the weather channel. If you have heard his views before, you can always refresh your memory.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...bal-warming-the-greatest-scam-in-history.html

 

[Tez3]

The fact is that the weather on this planet isn't constant, we've had ice ages and we've had global warming before. Global warming isn't in dispute, the causes of it are. It could be a natural thing, it could be man made or indeed a mixture of both. It's as stupid to say it doesn't exist as to say catergorically we are causing it. I don't think we are helping any by polluting the atmosphere but whether that is causing the warming has to be proved beyond doubt. The pollution is certainly so bad in parts of the world it's killing people so that alone should be reason enough to watch what goes into the planet's air.

 

[crushing]

You're not keeping up with the memes. In fact, you are a couple behind. It went from Global Warming to Climate Change a couple years ago and now the new term is Biodiversité. It is a slick marketing move to rename it again because instead of being against something now one can be pro-Biodiversité. If you are in to research, you would want to get your hands on some of the billions and billions of dollars to study the global problems that are in need of a solution.

Also, try not to confuse weather with climate.

 

[Tez3]

You're not keeping up with the memes. In fact, you are a couple behind. It went from Global Warming to Climate Change a couple years ago and now the new term is Biodiversité. It is a slick marketing move to rename it again because instead of being against something now one can be pro-Biodiversité. If you are in to research, you would want to get your hands on some of the billions and billions of dollars to study the global problems that are in need of a solution.

Also, try not to confuse weather with climate.

Ooooh I love Biodiversité ...or am I thinking of something else!

 

[CanuckMA]

Ooooh I love Biodiversité ...or am I thinking of something else!

You're thinking about your operation. :roflmao:

 

[Mark Jordan]

Why Biodiversité and not just Biodiversity? And what about ecosystem changes?

 

[Big Don]

If it's...
...warmer than unsual...
...colder than usual...
...wetter than usual...
...drier than usual...
...pretty much the same as it has always been...
...it's caused by global warming.

 

[Tez3]

If it's...
...warmer than unsual...
...colder than usual...
...wetter than usual...
...drier than usual...
...pretty much the same as it has always been...
...it's caused by global warming.

yeah, yeah.

 

[Empty Hands]

While the north east U.S., and the rest of the country, experiences a fresh wave of global warming...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...bal-warming-the-greatest-scam-in-history.html

What annoys me most about these wretchedly ignorant "argument" is that you don't make the opposite conclusion and believe in Global Warming when we've had record breaking heat waves in the summers.

If cold weather in winter disproves it, then hot weather in summer proves it.

Like I really needed proof that this argument is based on ideology rather than an actual appreciation of science or data.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm going against my better judgement by jumping into this thread, but here goes...

For those who seem to be confused by terminology, like "Global Warming"... it's not the most accurate term, as has been pointed out, yet it's not exactly inaccurate either. But you've got to understand it on a little more sophisticated level and stop insisting on a simplistic correlation of Global Warming = Hotter, and Cold Weather = Disproof of Global Warming. That kind of "proof" is really only proof of one's ignorance on the topic.

What it really means is that typical and local weather patterns are showing signs of getting out of whack, showing abnormalities when compared to long term weather data. These weather patterns are driven by subtle changes in global climate that have profound global effects. Global Warming does not mean that the entire globe will suddenly turn tropical and sunny and paradise so the folks in the northern and southern most climes can throw away their winter gear and start sun tanning in Northern Denmark. What it really means is that the average temperature of the globe is rising in small, but measureable amounts, which does have an affect on weather patterns. Remember: averages are made up of highs and lows. So yes, there will still be lows, and some local regions may actually experience unusually low temperatures, while the overall global average is rising.

These rising temparatures can wreak havoc on local weather patterns, making cold places colder, hot places hotter, and hot places colder and cold places hotter, as well as trigger more extreme storms (remember Katrina, anyone?). Weather patterns are getting scrambled because of the overal average rise in global temperature, while local regions may display weather that seems to contradict the issue. But again, the real measurement is global and not local.

Hope that helps, and now I'm outta here because I find the Study to be a stupid place.

 

[CanuckMA]

It's been said before but bears repeating


climate =/= weather

 

[billc]

Flying Crane, your point was pretty good until the climate gate e-mails came out and all the funny little games with global warming research were exposed. Once people start doing non-politically inspired research we might have a better picture of the climate.

I also have to ask, what happened to the last ice ages? How did those end without man made global warming?

 

[Empty Hands]

I also have to ask, what happened to the last ice ages? How did those end without man made global warming?

Are you actually interested in the answer, or are you just searching for a rhetorical dodge to preserve your disbelief?

Changes in CO2 in the atmosphere and solar output are thought to account for many beginnings and endings of previous ice ages. Technically, we are in an ice age now - in an interglacial period, with the last glaciation ending 10,000 years ago. The most severe ice age in Earth's history, the "Snowball Earth" ending about 650 million years ago, is thought to have ended due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere leading to warming. During that period, the entire or nearly the entire Earth was covered in ice sheets miles thick, although there is some support for a "slushball" with some open water or intermediate areas. Can you even imagine it?

 

[billc]

Yes, imagine mile high glaciers covering the Northern part of the globe and not one human available to create green house gases to melt them. Cooling and heating of the planet occurs without the slightest aid by man. The problem comes in when the global warming/climate change/climate chaos crowd wants to use it to dictate the way every human on the planet should live.

 

[Empty Hands]

Cooling and heating of the planet occurs without the slightest aid by man.

So?

 

[Empty Hands]

So?

Because I won't get anything intelligible in response, I will construct an argument using the same logic. Forest fires can be started by lightning strikes and other natural means. Therefore, human started forest fires are a myth.

Can we spot the flaws?

 

[billc]

So, is what I said. Man made global warming is as yet unproven, and with the release of the e-mails from the climate gate scandal, is even further from being advanced as a real theory. However, it is not stopping people from trying to tell other people, especially people in the developing world, that they cannot live their lives the way they want. they must make great sacrifices to the theory of global warming/climate change/climate chaos, regardless of the actual cause of the warming. This impacts real lives, now, not in the future. That is the so.

 

[Big Don]

So?

So, don't you see the overreaching arrogance to suggest that you or any number of people not driving SUV's, or having air conditioning could change that?

 

[Empty Hands]

That is the so.

None of that has anything to do with your point that the Earth has warmed and cooled on it's own over the years.

Execrable reasoning. Either the theory (do you even know what a scientific theory is?) is true or not, and the attitudes of its proponents towards others' lives has nothing to do with that.

Nor do your political preferences.

Unless you can produce evidence to compete with the already existing evidence for Global Warming, then your words are absolutely worthless. You can't fight evidence with words. Plenty of people far more clever than you have tried, and they all eventually failed. Reality has a way of asserting itself.

 

[Empty Hands]

So, don't you see the overreaching arrogance to suggest that you or any number of people not driving SUV's, or having air conditioning could change that?

"Arrogance" is not an argument, nor is it evidence. It is question-begging, a logical fallacy.

If you want to claim "arrogance", then please perform a proper analysis comparing the chemical effect of 30 billion metric tons of CO2 produced every year by humanity with other cooling and warming gases, from both natural and human sources. Be sure to include solar input, heat and carbon sinks (i.e. the oceans, plants), and the effects of water vapor changes. Be sure to include analysis of the existing data showing temperature increases, and construct an alternate model that excludes anthropogenic emissions.

If you can't do it, if your pet political shouters can't do it, if no one on the denialist side can do it, then you lose. That simple. Data always wins.