There would however be a problem when the management and the promoter are the same people. Rules are far easier to change then and it puts people over a barrel.
Gina Carano!
- Thread starter Hand Sword
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There would however be a problem when the management and the promoter are the same people. Rules are far easier to change then and it puts people over a barrel.
You might be unpleasantly surprised at how big a role looks have in what happens in day to day life on both sides of the fence. Even if it's subconscious, we judge people by the way they look...men and women alike. I have no argument at all with you that it's a seriously uphill battle to promote womens MMA. We've had several discussions recently on the subject and I have been pleasantly surprised at how honest some of the guys have been regarding their like/dislike of the idea. Me? I'm all for it as I've said before. (Yay, Rosi!:ultracool).
Andrew Green made an excellent point that Pro fighters are much more than just fighters. You must honor your contract. You must behave in such a way as to draw people to the spectacle of the fight. Once you accept the pro monacre and get to the top of your field you can figure on a down the middle split of those that are rabid fans and those that are rabid detractors. No matter how professional any of the fighters, male or female are there will be those that are uneducated in the martial arts that will have different criteria for what makes someone fan worthy.
Male fighters are judged on there looks as well, particullarly by female viewers.
Pro wrestling is a pretty clear example of male athletes / performers being judged largely on there appearance.
As soon as your paycheque starts coming from people that pay too watch you do something, then appearance is going to be a factor. Especially with a North American audience. (Compare British vs US sit coms: British ones are actually funny, but the US ones have all the pretty people)
Pro wrestling is a pretty clear example of male athletes / performers being judged largely on there appearance.
As soon as your paycheque starts coming from people that pay too watch you do something, then appearance is going to be a factor. Especially with a North American audience. (Compare British vs US sit coms: British ones are actually funny, but the US ones have all the pretty people)
I'm not sure what's wrong with that statement. But I think something is in fact wrong with it.
Well I'm trying to be PC here and not just assume you mean she picks the male fighters by looks! She could well pick females! If she chooses a male fighter for his looks alone it doesn't affect the fighters career does it? If female fighters are asked to fight by the male promoters on their shows merely because they are decorative some may have no careers at all! Female fighters want to be taken seriously for their fighting abilities not there looks. Of course there will be people who will judge their looks as well but as long as they also judge their fighting we will at least be half way there and on a par with the men!
The fighters may be entertainers to a certain extent but no more or less than other female athletes. America for example has a great many women athletes, runners, tri-athletes, swimmers, tennis players etc and while being good looking helps their careers outside their sport it doesn't help them perform or play better. You don't chose your Olympic track team beacause they look pretty but because they beat all the others and have the fastest times. If the winner's management however market them right they make a lot of money but looks don't help them win the medals in the first place.
Pro wrestling is a bone of contention for all in the MMA world, we are trying very hard to avoid any comparision to it. One of the problems we have with the local councils (who licence fight nights here) is persuading them that MMA fighters are athletes and the fights are skilful, honest and everything is above board. We need every one to be above board ... or at the very least appear to be. I'm not naive enough to think that worked fights and other irregularities don't happen. Female fighters are a rarity and attract attention and we need them to be professional, can you imagine the Williams sisters complaining about their periods to the press?
Oh, she totally picks only on looks. but that is ok because she is only a fan (and barely that!) not a fight promoter.
But anyway, not making weight, fight after fight, is unprofessional, no matter the gender.
-D
Well, promoters are likely most motivated to put on a show that people will pay to see, and if most of the people that might pay want to see good looking fighters, then wouldn't it make sense for the promoter to try and book good looking fighters?
Happens in other sports as well, Anna Kournikova was not the best Tennis player, but she probably got the most attention and sold the most tickets.
I think the same principal effects male fighters as well, there are some fighters that fans just don't want to see fight, no matter how good they are. Tim Sylvia had the UFC HW belt, yet I'm pretty sure Tank Abbott made more per fight then he did, and probably got more hype leading up to it. Ken Shamrock defiantly got more hype for his come back, and no one thought he had any chance at beating Tito by the time there 3rd fight came around. And how much did Royce Gracie get to get beat by Matt Hughes? Hughes made a fraction of that, but it was Royce that the fans wanted to see back in the ring.
Professional sports are not just about who is best, but about who can sell the most tickets.
Well I have to say honestly that we never pick fighters on looks! (we could well be short of fighters if we did!) We advertise when our next show will be and fighters who are interested contact us and we match then up, simple as that. No other promotion here picks for looks either, they would be laughed out of the country! What sells tickets is local fighters, people don't necessarily want to even see the big names but they love local fighters. We are at a different stage here and the UFC isn't considered as interesting as Cage Rage, Cagewarriors or the FX shows because American fighters don't interest the Brits as much and apart from maybe Mike Bisping it's the same the other way,that's natural. The audiences here are very knowledgable and wouldn't be at all chuffed to have 'pretty' fighters on shows! Women's fights when we can get one are accepted and treated the same as men's fights, that's by everyone. it's human nature to apprectiate good looks but the female fighters are certainly admire for their fighting abilities. There's no promoter here that would match a female fight just on looks, it wouldn't work. I have to add that gina wouldn't be matched here as her unprofessionalism has been noted by the promoters and commented on unfavourably.
I think MMA is probably far more commercial in the States than here, we certainly don't have it as a big business and we have few fighters, I can think of maybe 3 or 4 only, who make their living fighting. We have 6 women fighting pro rules and 11 who fight either amateur or semi pro. We have one junior.
I think MMA is probably far more commercial in the States than here, we certainly don't have it as a big business and we have few fighters, I can think of maybe 3 or 4 only, who make their living fighting. We have 6 women fighting pro rules and 11 who fight either amateur or semi pro. We have one junior.
Tez this is why the UFC is coming to the UK more and more. It simply is a ripe market ready and built for the UFC to invade. That is why the UFC tickets are more expensive and they also bring in local UK fighters (all of quality) as well. They also pay more so local events simply cannot compete in that venue.
As to looks well they always matter in one way or another and that is a fact of life. Still what is on the inside is always more important than looks in the long run.
We're not stupid and the UFC isn't making the impact here that perhaps it wishes! Far from wiping the smaller shows out they are doing great business on the back of the UFC who aren't bringing in that many local fighters, the last show in London had just Bisping and Terry Etim. Jess Liaudin is French. The 'big name' Crocop fight was a disappointment. for most in the UK the UFC is something to watch on the TV either that on on pirated DVDs! We can't wait to see if they are going to have one in Newcastle, our shows will be rocking from that lol!
This is second try for UFC in the UK, the last invasion didn't go too well lol! We think they may only have one or two more shows then move on to Europe. Not France though where MMA fights are illegal, that's why Jess fights in the UK. I'm not knocking UFC, we are doing well partly becuase of it but we are used to Cage Rage and Cage Warriors which are more accessible and more fun.
This is second try for UFC in the UK, the last invasion didn't go too well lol! We think they may only have one or two more shows then move on to Europe. Not France though where MMA fights are illegal, that's why Jess fights in the UK. I'm not knocking UFC, we are doing well partly becuase of it but we are used to Cage Rage and Cage Warriors which are more accessible and more fun.
This is the showcase for British fighters, Cage Rage tomorrow night. And yes they all made weight!! it is shown on Sky TV but i don't have satellite so can't tell you when etc. American interest will be in Chris Brennan and Pierre Guillet. Jean Silva has fought in Pride and Mark Weir of course did one of the fastest KOs on UFC. Vitor Belfort is well known to BJJ and MMA fans, his instructional DVDs are very good btw. Alex Reid is very good looking so they say, he's also an actor but I can't say any of these were matched for their looks lmao! he presented his opponent today at the weigh in with a bottle of baby oil........
Fightcard.
Gary Turner 102kg (224.8lbs) vs Julius Francis 133 kg (293.1 lbs)
Vitor Belfort 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs James Zikic 90 kg (198.3lbs)
Mark Weir 76.2 kg (167.9lbs) vs Paul Daley 77.3 kg (170.3lbs)
Jean Silva 71 kg (156.4lbs) vs Chris Brennan 70 kg (154.2lbs)
Mustapha Al-Turk 109 kg ( 240.2lbs) vs Tengiz Tedoradze 110 kg ( 242.4lbs)
Xavier Foupa-Pokam 83.9 kg (184.9lbs) vs Pierre Guillet 83.9 kg (184.9lbs)
Matt Ewin 83.5 kg (184lbs) vs Alex Reid 82.5 kg (181.8lbs)
Domonic Ostich 109.5 kg (241.3lbs) vs Neil Grove 132 kg ( 290.9lbs)
Roman Webber 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs Ed Smith 91 kg (200.5lbs)
Ch'e Mills 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Ross Mason 77.1 kg (169.9lbs)
Lee Doski 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Jason Barrett 76.5kg ( 168.6lbs)
http://www.teamgaryturner.com/index.php
I know the thread has gone a long way from Gina but the discussion has turned to professionism in MMA. All the guys above are pro fighters, only a couple make their all their living from fighting though and they all weigh in correctly, that's how you get taken seriously.
Fightcard.
Gary Turner 102kg (224.8lbs) vs Julius Francis 133 kg (293.1 lbs)
Vitor Belfort 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs James Zikic 90 kg (198.3lbs)
Mark Weir 76.2 kg (167.9lbs) vs Paul Daley 77.3 kg (170.3lbs)
Jean Silva 71 kg (156.4lbs) vs Chris Brennan 70 kg (154.2lbs)
Mustapha Al-Turk 109 kg ( 240.2lbs) vs Tengiz Tedoradze 110 kg ( 242.4lbs)
Xavier Foupa-Pokam 83.9 kg (184.9lbs) vs Pierre Guillet 83.9 kg (184.9lbs)
Matt Ewin 83.5 kg (184lbs) vs Alex Reid 82.5 kg (181.8lbs)
Domonic Ostich 109.5 kg (241.3lbs) vs Neil Grove 132 kg ( 290.9lbs)
Roman Webber 93 kg (204.9lbs) vs Ed Smith 91 kg (200.5lbs)
Ch'e Mills 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Ross Mason 77.1 kg (169.9lbs)
Lee Doski 77 kg (169.7lbs) vs Jason Barrett 76.5kg ( 168.6lbs)
http://www.teamgaryturner.com/index.php
I know the thread has gone a long way from Gina but the discussion has turned to professionism in MMA. All the guys above are pro fighters, only a couple make their all their living from fighting though and they all weigh in correctly, that's how you get taken seriously.
Having the UFC in England will only help the smaller shows. Far from driving them out of business it will increase their business provided they all respect one another and do not file frivilous lawsuits. A mark on the love of mma in England is that the UFC is there and will be continuing on. From my understanding the ratings and take in from the last UFC in the UK was good and that they were happy with that aspect of their promotion. So I would not look at the UFC as the big boogey man but more as a draw to bring more attention to the sport in your country.
