ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2010
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NopeYou style hinges on one technique?
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NopeYou style hinges on one technique?
Nope
Why? Its not my style anymore.at that point its a watered down versionThen you should really be able to make do with some approximation shouldn't you?
And at the end of the day no amount of training will guarantee success so your just hoping it worksYes you were very clear about this. You are making this point I made earlier.
"There are no absolutes with self defence. If I get attacked by an elephant my method will not work and I will get trunk slapped.
There are methods that will lean towards greater success than others. These methods can be tested in an environment that has saftey features.
The reason for this is because to have a propper idea of what works we have to repeat these tests and come up with a trend. This is how Resisted training works. We call these ideas percentages.
So although this method is flawed it is the least flawed. And the best method to teach skills."
Why? Its not my style anymore.at that point its a watered down version
You can train hard without entering competitionsTrain hard fight easy. If you can win with the watered down version. Imagine what you can do at full strength.
So did pure strikers doesnt mean a whole hill of beans
Except complete classical styles don't fit with in the rules. If I have to leave out 40% of my style to make it fit the rules well its no longer that style anymore.so why bother?
Yeah, which is why I said that competition is the closest you're going to get to actually testing the effectiveness of your style outside of engaging in constant street fights that put your life in danger.
It should be noted that there are different levels of competition as well; Competitions with a heavy rule set like point fighting, Bjj or Judo competitions, all the way up to NHB tournaments where two or more guys are slugging it out with no gloves and 1or 2 rules.
It should be noted that regardless of rule set, the same set of styles tend to dominate that format.
lol ok strikers never won anything. If that makes you feel,better about you precious grappling go for it.Pure strikers never did well until they learned how to escape the takedown and neutralize grappling. It wasn't the rules that held them back, it was the nature of grappling that gave it an advantage. What was that nature? The fact that grapplers can train at a harder pace than strikers with less fear of injury.
nothing man your right anything other then BJJ or MMA is useless since it never won a pretty medal or wwe style belt.What MMA rules would force you to leave out 40% of your style? Feel free to use the rule set from outfits like Rio Heroes where the only rules are no biting or eye gouging.
I just hate when they fail to give an attack. The only time I need them to attack "right" is when I need to practice a specific response. Can't practice dealing with a tackle if the guy insists on boxing, and can't practice dealing with an attack if my attacker turns into a mannequin.Gotta hate when they don't attack you right.
I agree that there is some validity to this. However, the primary issue I have with competition is that it's among people who TRAIN for competition. I'm not talking about the skill set, but about the amount of training. The people I'd face in competition will often be folks who train A LOT for those events, because they want to beat the guy who trains one hour less than them. That's unrelated/uncorrellated to the common attacks on the street.
Someone mentioned in another thread (currently locked) that everyone has access to martial arts info (Youtube, etc.), but access is not the same as training. The common attack will come from one of two sources: someone who is out of control (drunk and/or angry beyond the point of emotional hijacking) or someone who is there to take you down on a calculated attack with no warning (probably someone who wants something you have, and doesn't like the odds of a fight).
So, if you put me - a fit 45-year-old with bad knees and a gimpy toe - into the ring/octagon with someone who's in prime physical condition, I will probably lose if he has any reasonable training. Part of this is simply that he can take more punishment than I, and has options I don't (pushing hard off the balls of the feet from the ground, deep squatting, etc. are simply impossible for me), and that some of the things I'd do facing that attacker in the street simply aren't going to come out of me in a competition. I won't take knees out to test my skills (some will in competition, I won't), and I obviously won't punch to the throat or poke eyes.
Now, give me someone in similar physical condition, and then we're in business. But then, he's not competing, either.
Yes, competition is useful. Maybe even the best test we have available. But competition becomes a young man's (relatively speaking) game in the end. And those competitions fall back on techniques that work against similarly well-conditioned people AND which provide the fewest openings for that same training.
I miss competing, and still spar some to get what I can of it. And I practice with resisting partners. I do what I can to test my techniques and skills, but I won't be entering any MMA competitions. I'm past that ability in my life.
lol ok strikers never won anything. If that makes you feel,better about you precious grappling go for it.
nothing man your right anything other then BJJ or MMA is useless since it never won a pretty medal or www style belt.
No, I just don't have the desire to go over this same tired argument with you again. Its been done at least a dozen times and has nothing to do with this thread. You have your opinion and I disagree.Nice straw-man. That isn't what I said.
So in other words you were blowing smoke out your butt with the "MMA rules removes 40% of my classic MA style" comment?
No, I just don't have the desire to go over this same tired argument with you again. Its been done at least a dozen times and has nothing to do with this thread. You have your opinion and I disagree.
One point to consider is that you don't have to compete to realize some benefit from competition. Not everyone who trains in MMA or bjj competes, but the training model and standards are calibrated when you train with others who do compete.I agree that there is some validity to this. However, the primary issue I have with competition is that it's among people who TRAIN for competition. I'm not talking about the skill set, but about the amount of training. The people I'd face in competition will often be folks who train A LOT for those events, because they want to beat the guy who trains one hour less than them. That's unrelated/uncorrellated to the common attacks on the street.
Someone mentioned in another thread (currently locked) that everyone has access to martial arts info (Youtube, etc.), but access is not the same as training. The common attack will come from one of two sources: someone who is out of control (drunk and/or angry beyond the point of emotional hijacking) or someone who is there to take you down on a calculated attack with no warning (probably someone who wants something you have, and doesn't like the odds of a fight).
So, if you put me - a fit 45-year-old with bad knees and a gimpy toe - into the ring/octagon with someone who's in prime physical condition, I will probably lose if he has any reasonable training. Part of this is simply that he can take more punishment than I, and has options I don't (pushing hard off the balls of the feet from the ground, deep squatting, etc. are simply impossible for me), and that some of the things I'd do facing that attacker in the street simply aren't going to come out of me in a competition. I won't take knees out to test my skills (some will in competition, I won't), and I obviously won't punch to the throat or poke eyes.
Now, give me someone in similar physical condition, and then we're in business. But then, he's not competing, either. Yes, competition is useful. Maybe even the best test we have available. But competition becomes a young man's (relatively speaking) game in the end. And those competitions fall back on techniques that work against similarly well-conditioned people AND which provide the fewest openings for that same training.
I miss competing, and still spar some to get what I can of it. And I practice with resisting partners. I do what I can to test my techniques and skills, but I won't be entering any MMA competitions. I'm past that ability in my life.
But who's to say that either assailant in those situations wasn't the former state wrestling champ, or Jr. Golden Gloves champ? My point in that earlier post is that you simply can't assume that you're the only one trained. You can go on the internet now and see countless videos of teenagers beating the piss out of each other. Frankly a LOT of those kids have solid basic skills, and many of those skills are coming directly out of MMA, Boxing, and Wrestling.
What does competition do for you? It hones your skill set against resisting opponents, teaches you how to handle an adrenaline dump, and it increases your endurance and durability. All of those are pretty beneficial qualities.
I would say that a 40 something with bad knees and a gimpy toe probably isn't running around ambushing people either.
Eh, I think an uppercut to the face is actually more effective on a un-conditioned person.
You don't need to enter a competition, but if you have the opportunity to train with younger guys you should definitely take that opportunity. I actively train with twenty-somethings who actively compete in both MMA and Bjj, and its a totally different ball game because of their raw energy and strength. Sometimes my training and experience simply isn't enough to overcome their raw abilities. That's a reality that every aging martial artist needs to realize.
In the end we're dealing with a generation now that has access to martial arts on an unprecedented level. I agree that access isn't training, but access is still access and I know for a fact that if the entire Bjj and MMA curriculum was available to me for free on Youtube back then like it is now, my buddies and I would be in the backyard practicing those techniques for hours.
One point to consider is that you don't have to compete to realize some benefit from competition. Not everyone who trains in MMA or bjj competes, but the training model and standards are calibrated when you train with others who do compete.
The other thing to consider is that, sure, training for a specific rule set can be limiting and create blind spots. However, once the blind spot is exposed, it can be easily addressed. Blinds spots are exposed in several ways. For example, using a rubber knife while sparring in a bjj class is exposing a blind spot. Competing under a different rule set exposes blind spots. online discussion.