Dr John La Tourrette

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Chicago Green Dragon, Mar 25, 2003.

  1. Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

    Kembudo-Kai Kempoka Senior Master

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    "Some of you may notice that I'm not wearing a tie in all of these changes at an other-than-conscious level, remembering to forget all of the things you no longer need to remember...to forget."

    Punctuation ambiguity prefixing a confusion/amnesic suggestion. Have to induce TDS prior to the hidden directive settling into the back of their mind.
     
  2. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    not sure if this follows but I have been trying to not use any negative directives "don't fall down" replaced with "stay on your feet"



    'tie in all of these changes at an other-than-conscious level' ....sweet
     
  3. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    Yep.

    A very good point.

    It's very well known by anyone in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Educational Kinesiology, Thought Field Therapy, Touch For Health, Energy Medicine, blab, blab, blab.

    It is all easily verifiable to anyone except the Great Randi, and those of his similar lack of mindedness who have the need to prove to the world their own "brain crap".

    I would suggest that those who want to know about it start studying about it instead of "working their mouths" and showing their vast ignorance.

    If you've NOT studied it, why post about it?

    If you have studied about it, and it doesn't work for you, why not tell us your experiences and, just maybe some here can help.

    And I did say that with total respect.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. As far as I know I'm one of the few occidentals that took some of the energy concepts from Traditional Chinese Medicine and put them into the martial arts. What is amusing to me is the ANGER that a small amount of people react to those types of skills. What also amazes me is the vast DISTORTIONS that some attribute to those energy tactics that they NEVER HAVE HAD. And with those "stupid" attributes, which ARE NOT there, they attempt to validate their ignorance, by invalidating what they said, NOT what I or others who know those skills have taught.
     
  4. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    I've not a clue to who you are...but, "YOU ARE WELCOME!"

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. I think you have discovered "why" I do NOT post about this type of topic on this site or on it's sister site. But I do post about them on my own sites. It's the old biblical thing about casting pearls before swine...or as Dan Kennedy says, "attempting to teach a pig to sing".
     
  5. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    Hello Dave,

    I noticed that you mentioned www.meridiansforhealth.com, but when I went to it, it couldn't be found.

    Am I just showing my lack of computer skills, or did the address change?

    Sincerely,
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
     
  6. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    I am curious if there is a thread on this topic of energy tactics in the martial arts by competent people?

    If so, can you help me find it?

    Thank you.

    Respectfully,
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
     
  7. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    Hi Doc Dave,

    Nice remeeting you here.

    What I did find neat about Dr. Bandler is his awareness and usuages of different energies of the body...specifically locations, size, and directions of negative and positive thought processes, and how they are located in the body directionally from outside the body...sort of isomorphic to a proper nerve cavity shot done on Bladder 22.

    And something else I did find interesting is him co-teaching a seminar with Rodger Callahan, the Founder of Thought Field Therapy.

    And I do believe you are right. One of the best covert unzips is a linguistic slight of mouth tactic that does cause the listener to go into TDS and, following his own inner maps, ends up where you want him to.

    But it can't be possible, and cannot work for the kenpo karate arts, right?

    Nice talking with you.

    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
     
  8. The Last Legionary

    The Last Legionary All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu

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    John PMed me as he took exception to my post of 2 months back which I quoted here to save people the strain of scrolling back to read. I'm all about saving the cpu's and all that stuff. I didn't mention him by name, but he seems to think it's all about him. I'll let the reads decide all that. Let me clarify a point. John gets accused of having a fake PHD. His PHD is legit, and was issued prior to the issuing body being decredited. I'll let the readers though decide what a degree from a disgraced source is actually worth when compared to those issued from someplace that has been around for decades, even a few centuries without such, problems. The rest of the stuff he spouts to me, is of no interest. Others will have different viewpoints. I do take exception to reading that he considers all of us here and over at KenpoTalk to be swine. For that, I bare my buttocks and fart in your general direction. I predict my hot wind will defeat yours, to the pain of the readers nose hairs.
     
  9. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Attention All Users

    There have already been a few posts from this thread that have been brought to the attention of the mod team. To avoid any further issues, let me remind everyone to keep the discussion on a respectful and friendly level and to also please use the ignore feature, which can be found on every users profile, if you choose to not read someones post.

    Mike Slosek
    MT Asst. Admin
     
  10. Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

    Kembudo-Kai Kempoka Senior Master

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    Despite Mr. Parkers interest in divesting AK of mysticism, any time you look into mechanical optimization of the body as weapon, one can also benefit from a willingness to consider the influences of mind. In such considerations, ones attention might wander to the ideas of, "what is mind?" "where does it come from?" How does it work to drive the body...both mine, and the opponents?" "If mind is an entity I can influence within myself, is it influencable in others by my actions or intents?"

    While many stoic and empirically minded Westerners and skeptics celebrate the seperation of old mystic propensities from kenpo, I find adding them back in makes for an interesting new dimension for exploration. Many years ago, Mr. Parker and I had a conversation about how todays mysticism becomes tomorrows science. We spoke about the history of algebra and geometry, and how that Greek guy who liked triangles considered that math was the language of the architecture of the universe, and one had to study it to better understand the mind of the Divine Architect...a means to meet and know the mind of god. It was a religion, to start. Now, it's a science course.

    Psychologists, philosophers, and mystics have been asserting for quite some time that external events can be shaped by expectation, and this discussion has moved from the halls of the philosophy departments at universities, to the chemistry and science departments. What will happen when some brilliant Hawkings-level thinker proves these ideas through sound theorem? There will still be critics and cynics, there will still be mystics, and some of us will still be looking at mind-body relationships in kenpo performance, with a mind towards prospecting the impossible for new frontiers of possibility.

    A psychonaut, exploring the topography of the cognisphere,

    Dr. Dave

    PS -- there are still beers to drink over flowing conversation. If you make it near this way again, let me know.
     
  11. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Hi John

    Crikey, I posted that a while ago :D!

    As far as I know there is no such thread extant here at MT, largely because, as my much earlier post was intended to imply, the general concsensus is that there is no evidence that such 'energy tactics' have any validity.

    Some people do believe that these techniques work but most do not.

    Because it essentially boils down to a matter of belief and hence leads to circular argumentation, discussions on it tend not to be fruitful or remain calm for long.

    That's why I posted what I did - in bald isolation and in hindsight it actually reads rather more rawly and cheaply than I would like; for that I apologise :rei:.

    Cheers

    Mark
     
  12. Jdokan

    Jdokan Black Belt

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    Somewhere in MT there was posted a video of some "magic hands" master that offered a $5000.00 purse if anybody could beat him...he got beat quickly much too the amusement of his circling power hands....that had made all his students fall over......Belief in something outside the realm of reality is just that....the Sioux really believed their enchanded bone breastplates would save them from the soldiers bullets...look what that got them...
    whatever....
     
  13. Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

    Kembudo-Kai Kempoka Senior Master

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    It would be erroneous to make any assumptions about knowing what we do, without getting on the mat and experiencing it first hand. It would be erroneous to assume that your model of reality is the only functional model, to the exclusion of others...of which you know naught. It would be erroneous to assume that what was true for that old Chi master is "truth" for what John or I do (which are different, though they share some philosophical genetics).

    In 1991, I had already been a student of the Gracie brothers for a bit. While providing support at a Tony Robbins firewalk, we had a student and associated instructor from Dillmans strut through the staff room, bragging about his knockout prowess. He heard I was training in GJJ, and assumed that -- since he had been at Dillmans stuff longer than I had been at Gracie Jiu-Jutsu, it would be an unfair match up. It was. I invited him to knock me out any way he could at any time he could...from the shoot, to the takedown, to any time during the mount or rollover to Mata Leon. 3 times we clashed, and 3 times he tapped from within a cinched-up chokehold, not even getting close to knocking me out. I reminded him I was still a beginner, and he should take his "skill" to the Academy for a Challenge Match if he really wanted to be owned/embarassed.

    The easy assumption would be to say, "All Gracie guys rock, and all Dillman guys suck". Problem was, less than a week after the firewalk, one of the guys we trained with took a hammerfist to the carotid pulse point while clinched with a Dillman dude, and went down hard. And cold. So, gross generalizations from either camp would have been incorrect, as counter-examples existed as contrary evidence to either position. What we did, however, was to actually go and look and see. And learn first hand what the other did. Test it under pressure.

    On another forum, I have written about things I and my students have done while training in hypnotically altered states. Some say, "Interesting...how so?", while others say, "Balderdash!". I typically don't share the information with anyone except my direct students. If I did share it with strangers, it was expensive. At a seminar for kenpoists in my part of the country, I opened an invitation for the curious and skeptical alike: I will take you through the process for free. We will tape it, so you can look at the before and after differences, and see for yourself if anything changes. My bet was that I could triple their speed and power in an hour; something normally requiring years of training and practice. It would be free; we would do it after the seminar was over so there were no time constraints; there would be seniors in the art present to act as witnesses (in case the tape was not enough), and so on. For the chorus of critics and curious in the area, you know how many showed up to take me up on the offer? Nada. None. Zero. Zilch. Easier to yak about it then to get on the mat and have a direct experience with it.

    And as to the idea that I'm making it up, there are a handful of people on these forums who have gone through the process for various combinations. Consensus being, "yeah, he can do it."

    As one of my old DI's used to say, "Don't let your ego get in the way of your common sense." I would add, "Don't let your limited experience -- or your insistence on identifying with your on poor capacity for change -- define reality or limitations for others...it may not be accurate." I can't speak for Dr. John, but I can for myself: What you don't know about what I do could fill volumes. Literally. A small library of textbooks, training journals, reference citations culled from peer-reviewed journals in Cognitive, Social, and Learning Psych; physiology, biomechanics, Ericksonian breif therapy methods, etc. And since you'll never show up to see for yourself, it may be more appropriate to curb your enthusiasm. Or learn more about what we do before expressing your cynicism.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
     
  14. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    That moment led directly to our inviting you to Omaha. We didn't even get very deep into this stuff, but deep enough to feel the difference and learn some things that still are working for me. I look forward to more. September?
     
  15. Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

    Kembudo-Kai Kempoka Senior Master

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    Be glad to, anytime. Not sure where I'd fit in Budocamp, though...looks like all the time slots are filled. Still, down for anything...I know schedules are malleable.

    Side note for the people who weren't there: We met at Davids school with a little over a dozen people. Discussed the effects of communication with internal resources (parts of us that already know how to do something, but just haven't been asked yet), and worked on setting up a structure for communication (installing a phone line to the other-than-conscious mind, so to speak). Considered meditation in motion, basing new motion on internal imagery that arises as a result of actually bothering to ask the deeper mind-body connection how to best do a given thing. Some good stuff happened. Next time, I'd like to get some bricks and boards, have people do test breaks to set a benchmark, then see what happenes when we go inside and ask. It would likely bump up the costs of the seminar to cover hard costs of lumber and concrete (no pun intended), but would provide an interesting objective measure of improvement.

    Plate steel for the after-hours part? :)

    D.
     
  16. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Ah, I think I detect that there may have been a little mis-matched communication earlier in the the thread.

    What tends to spring to everyones mind when mention is made of the use of non-physical 'energy' in martial arts is the "Ki Balls", no-touch, knock-outs, which have so spectacularly failed when placed under the 'microscope' of actual trial.

    What you and John seem to be dealing with is altogether closer to home for many of us who've practised Chinese arts in the past.

    I, for one, would not dream of arguing against the efficacy of what sounds akin to the use of Ki to expand and overcome your limits.

    Since I've lost most of the strength in my right arm, I've sometimes had the necessity to utilise this just to be able to do something mundane, like pick up something heavy - the amsuing thing is that what tends to 'fail' is the metalwork (I've a couple of S-bends in the plates these days :D).
     
  17. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    I'm pretty sure a slot will be made for you at Budocamp. Real Sure.
    Wood is cheap, and it feels good to break stuff.
    I also bought one of those "Herman personal Training Assistants", it measure accelaration in 3 diminsions, attach it to a target and we ahve objective measurements. Mostly...

    HERMAN- Digital Interactive Training Partner
     
  18. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    Swine?

    I think that you must be sniffing your own above mentioned IQ...

    ...as far as I remember I made a quote of the biblical statement, "Not to cast pearls before swine", in the reference to "energy and it's various usuage in the martial arts" being rediculed and being received with derision and rude nothing comments...

    ...And since a few here that know NOTHING about energy, and refuse to look at the scientific verification of any such process, SPEAKING to those folk is METAPHORICALLY as useless as the above biblical expression.

    If you think that above statement means 'you are a swine', my estimation of your IQ did just drop about 100 points...and I do apologize to you for your lack of understanding.

    I personally believe you are a smart fellow, following the rules of this establishment, and attempting to redicule and embarrass with jokes and rude puns.

    Maybe I'm not 'totally right'.

    Now if someone was actually confused enough to believe I called them "swine", I did NOT mean that in a name calling way.

    My sincere apologies.

    With total respect,
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
     
  19. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    Yes, Dr. Dave that would nice, but I will drink Green Tea instead, since at my foul old age, beer does make the bladder weak and the sinuses run.

    It would be awesome to get you and Dr. Ron and a few of like minds into a room for 3-4 hours over a period of a weekend so we could play.

    Of course with you and Doc Ron being there I would need to bring my professional dictionary.

    Sincerely,
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette
    Ps. My last 4 Intensives have been on how to use those above techologies. A good book to read on current methologies is Lynne McTaggart's "The Intention Experiment". Then there is always Dr. William Tiller's 4 books if you have the patience and physics background to wade through them. I've talked with Mr. Parker about the Silva Mind Control stuff and with the Kahuna stuff. Very interesting topics. I do know that when I was talking with Will Tracy he mentioned that all of them (the brothers) had taken Silva Mind control and did talk with Mr. Parker about some type of program of that nature being needed in kenpo. I personally did add that type of training, and that type of training is mandatory for my black belts, as is the study of Practitioner Level NLP and Basic Direct Hypnosis, and Basic Ericsonian Indirect Hypnosis. I know that it makes the kenpo practitioner much better at kenpo.
     
  20. Dr John M La Tourrette

    Dr John M La Tourrette Green Belt

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    My apologies Mark for not reading your post until yesterday,

    I do skip different groups for months at a time...

    ...mainly because of my own 4 groups, 4 websites, and my bordom.

    I just notice the rude un-informed attack by "what-ever-his-name-is" a day ago, so I decided it might be fun to post here for a day or so.

    Sincerely,
    Dr. John M. La Tourrette123
     

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