I found these videos on another site. I'm curious as to the opinions of our LEO's here on them.
"Don't talk to the police" ??
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
- Start date
I'm broadly familiar with the videos, and don't have time to watch them right now.
The professor is speaking like a defense attorney, and focusing on the "anything you say can be used against you" aspect of Miranda. From that point of view -- saying nothing makes sense. Of course, it may also win you a trip to jail until things get sorted out... even though you were in the right!
Unfortunately, if you say nothing, the cops have no way to know your side of the story unless the physical evidence is overwhelming. I've posted elsewhere a case I worked where the apparent evidence at the time would have led me to arrest the wrong person...
My non-specific, non-legal, and coming only from a cop, not a lawyer, suggestion is that you need to tell the cops enough about what happened that they have the basic outline of who did what -- and NO MORE. In a self-defense situation, that pretty much amounts to "He punched/kicked/tried to stab/otherwise attacked me, and I defended myself." Much more -- and you might want to have an attorney. My teacher taught me a saying: By the time a fool learns the rules, the players have left the field. You don't want to be a fool when your liberty is at stake.
The professor is speaking like a defense attorney, and focusing on the "anything you say can be used against you" aspect of Miranda. From that point of view -- saying nothing makes sense. Of course, it may also win you a trip to jail until things get sorted out... even though you were in the right!
Unfortunately, if you say nothing, the cops have no way to know your side of the story unless the physical evidence is overwhelming. I've posted elsewhere a case I worked where the apparent evidence at the time would have led me to arrest the wrong person...
My non-specific, non-legal, and coming only from a cop, not a lawyer, suggestion is that you need to tell the cops enough about what happened that they have the basic outline of who did what -- and NO MORE. In a self-defense situation, that pretty much amounts to "He punched/kicked/tried to stab/otherwise attacked me, and I defended myself." Much more -- and you might want to have an attorney. My teacher taught me a saying: By the time a fool learns the rules, the players have left the field. You don't want to be a fool when your liberty is at stake.
First off that is one guy who just LOVES to hear himself talk. Secondly I lasted only 8-9 minutes of the video because at times he was speaking so fast and so enthusiastically (the love of his voice) that it was impossible (for me anyway) to understand him.
There are times when you should not say anything until you speak to counsel. It is when you are positively, absolutely guilty of the crime in question. You did it, you know you did it, a lot of the evidence says you did it and there are witnesses to the fact. Shut the hell up and wait for your lawyer.
However; there are times when talking to the police and telling them EVERYTHING helps clear you of any and all possible charges, accusations, misunderstandings and mis-identifications.
Case in point... my own...
There is a time and a place. IMO if you are positively innocent of all wrong doing and help cooperate with the police they will not grudge you for holding out on them (which hinders their investigation and delays justice to the crime) and will IMO help you out in clearing your name.
Granted there are those investigators who may be pursuing a case for a long time and out of frustration take short-cuts to solve it and use incriminating statements to help their case... but I think these are rare.
My experience thus far with the police has been ... guilty... shut up... not guilty... open up.
Like to see what the LEO's on this board think as well.
There are times when you should not say anything until you speak to counsel. It is when you are positively, absolutely guilty of the crime in question. You did it, you know you did it, a lot of the evidence says you did it and there are witnesses to the fact. Shut the hell up and wait for your lawyer.
However; there are times when talking to the police and telling them EVERYTHING helps clear you of any and all possible charges, accusations, misunderstandings and mis-identifications.
Case in point... my own...
Now this guy wants to tell me NOT to talk to the police. Wonders what would've happened if I didn't tell that detective anything.Not too long ago I got into a nice hot heavy make out session with a woman that I've known for quite some time. We were at it until the moment that her room-mate/friend showed up and took her home. This was on a friday night.
The following Monday a knock on my door and there is a detective there wanting to ask me some questions... about that same friday night. Seems that I was being accused of attempted rape by using a date-rape drug.
Turns out that when the gal got home she went to sleep on her couch and didn't wake up until she was in the hospital. Turns out that she ended up in a coma for several days. It was the hospital that was making the accusation against me after talking with her room-mate/friend to find out what she had been doing prior to her comatose state. The officer was following up on the hospital's report.
I was floored that this type of charge could even be leveled against me but either way... I told the officer everything... detailed, of what happened during the time I was with this woman. Who said what who did what and for how long. Said details I will not go into here... :uhyeah:
Final result after intensive investigation, and I should mention that it was the ONLY time the detective talked with me... he didn't come back for a second interview because obviously I gave him everything that he needed from my side to carry on his investigation... final result; lab tests shown she had mixed alcohol and prescription drugs in a combination that eventually knocked her out and caused her to slip into a (thankfully) short coma, the "R-kit" tests results shown there was no rape ... plus she had a prior history of falsifying reporting rape against three other individuals. Had I known THAT I'd never touched her.
I was cleared of all charges.
There is a time and a place. IMO if you are positively innocent of all wrong doing and help cooperate with the police they will not grudge you for holding out on them (which hinders their investigation and delays justice to the crime) and will IMO help you out in clearing your name.
Granted there are those investigators who may be pursuing a case for a long time and out of frustration take short-cuts to solve it and use incriminating statements to help their case... but I think these are rare.
My experience thus far with the police has been ... guilty... shut up... not guilty... open up.
Like to see what the LEO's on this board think as well.
Answer every question put to you by the officers...Tell your side of the story TRUTHFULLY...Yes, you may be detained there for a bit while we sort through all the stories...Its the best way to eliminate you as a suspect...
Archangel M
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Think we hit this one before.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62972&highlight=talking+police
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62972&highlight=talking+police
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
Ah. I missed that. Thanks!
Archangel M
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No prob
That was a good discussion on that other thread. Worth a read.
That was a good discussion on that other thread. Worth a read.
This is the advise I have given to my kids and close personal friends. It is also the advise that I have given to my fellow officers (and I have been involved in 2 criminal cases involving officers) If you are completely innocent and 100% know that you have done nothing wrong, talk to the police. If you're not sure or you know you did something wrong then do this one thing. SHUT UP! In both cases involving law enforcement officers one talked and got convicted of the crime. The other officer tried to talk (a domestic dispute between him and his wife I was specifically involved because I wasn't with his agency) and every time he said anything I told him over and over again that he didn't want to say anything and even then he wouldn't shut up. People get very emotional and want to talk but my advise to all my fellow Americans, all my fellow law enforcement officers is this: take a deep breath and if you know that you did something wrong, or that you may have done something wrong, then don't talk. It's irritating to the officers because they are just doing there job and want to find out what happened-they aren't trying to put innocent people in jail or prison. But your first priority is your own protection and anything you say can and will be used against you.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
I'll briefly repeat what I said in the other thread. These videos (and this topic in general) were discussed extensively and in some cases, hotly debated by some who participated in the thread, on another forum (on a side-note, it seems that cops are more likely to be part of the "talk" camp). Two of the members who posted in that thread are attorneys, one of them also spent a number of years as a judge. Both of them also train extensively in various methods of self-defense.
Their advice was to STFU and say NOTHING even if you are 100% innocent.
My personal opinion is that while, in a few cases, you may be able to talk yourself out of further trouble, there is a great chance that something you say (especially when under the effects of an adreneline dump) may very well hurt you. Considering, as is discussed on the video, nothing you say that exonerates you is admissible in court, there is little reason not to wait for an attorney.
I'd rather spend a few hours in an interview room, or even a night in jail waiting for my lawyer than possibly spend years in prison because I talked myself into a greater problem. I'm less worried about the short term (getting arrested) than I am about the long term (getting convicted).
I highly encourage anyone who hasn't to watch the entire video. For anyone who hasn't...the prof. gives the last part of the lecture to a police detective who basically agrees that it is not in your best interests to talk.
Their advice was to STFU and say NOTHING even if you are 100% innocent.
My personal opinion is that while, in a few cases, you may be able to talk yourself out of further trouble, there is a great chance that something you say (especially when under the effects of an adreneline dump) may very well hurt you. Considering, as is discussed on the video, nothing you say that exonerates you is admissible in court, there is little reason not to wait for an attorney.
I'd rather spend a few hours in an interview room, or even a night in jail waiting for my lawyer than possibly spend years in prison because I talked myself into a greater problem. I'm less worried about the short term (getting arrested) than I am about the long term (getting convicted).
I highly encourage anyone who hasn't to watch the entire video. For anyone who hasn't...the prof. gives the last part of the lecture to a police detective who basically agrees that it is not in your best interests to talk.
rhn_kenpo
Yellow Belt
Darn right.
A lot of the 'it depends on the situation' comments are entirely focused on avoiding the inconvenience of being taken into custody if you don't talk. Yes, that would be a hassle. But the key goal is to best defend yourself against more severe longer-term problems, not to avoid inconvenience.
If the downside is a $100 ticket, I may take my chances. But if I EVER find myself in higher-stakes situation where the police want my version of the story, I'm going to say absolutely nothing and let my attorney do the talking.
The Miranda warning makes this perfectly clear:
Suspects have the right to remain silent. Use it.
Anything a suspect says may be used AGAINST them in court. Note, it does not say that your statements can be used in court to support your case, only against you.
Archangel M
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In the other thread my advice was that you should realize that if YOU dont talk, the police are going to then have to go with what witnesses and/or the other party says.
A note on exculpatory material...
Police are required under Brady vs Maryland to turn over all exculpatory statements or evidence as a due process right; failing to do so at the least creates grounds for appeal, and often for mistrial. Whether information turned over the defense is used at trial is up to the defense attorney.
Police are required under Brady vs Maryland to turn over all exculpatory statements or evidence as a due process right; failing to do so at the least creates grounds for appeal, and often for mistrial. Whether information turned over the defense is used at trial is up to the defense attorney.
Franc0
Purple Belt
Yep. 100% in agreement. Seen it alot of times when the smallest thing said was taken 1000 degs out of context.
F
