P
progressivetactics
Guest
How many of you have and teach/use a double fist block in your system? What is your explanation of the secondary hand, its positioning, and purpose
OP
cas
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #2
??
There are many moves in wado-ryu kata with two arms blocking simultaniously, some of these with the hands in a fist.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by a double fist block, could you describe it?
Casper
There are many moves in wado-ryu kata with two arms blocking simultaniously, some of these with the hands in a fist.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by a double fist block, could you describe it?
Casper
kenmpoka
Blue Belt
Well, this block "morote uke" is used in many kata. I have three basic bunkai that I teach:
1- Augmentmed block followed by an uppercut (ura zuki), keep the formation.
2- Augmented block, followed by a left trap (Osae) and then the circular uppercut or backfist (from inside out).
3-Augmented block followed by a right Osae and a left uppercut or backfist.
2 & 3 can be used against 1 or two punch attacks.
Also your augmented hand is in position to be used as a follow up punch or block against a second attack.
Finally Morote uke can be used as a jamming block/strike as well, on the outside of an attacking arm pinning the arm or going through the elbow.
Salute,
OP
progressivetactics
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #4
in Tang Soo Do, the double fisted block has the primary arm going forward in and inside to outside circular motion (in to out block) with the secondary (supporting) hand traveling in a smaller circular path as "reinforcment" to the primary, but without touching . It stops 1 inch from the primary elbow, and is wrist inward about 45deg, solar plexus high. It has many interpratations, but curious is it is widely used in other systems, and their ideas about it.
don bohrer
Brown Belt
Not sure which your talking about. I'll comment on my 2nd and 3rd choice since the first is covered.
1st. The reinforced block starts as an outside block with the supporting hand on the elbow.
2nd. When done high or low it's the classic X block. When down to the outsides it covers most of the upper body. Your arm closet to the attack is facing downward with a slight bend (no locking the elbow) and the arm reaching across your body is a bent V protecting your neck and face. This block covers a lot of territory. I use it to block a wheel kick, then trap the leg by raising the fist that is pointing downward.
3rd. Again your arms are a bent V and both hands are in front and run parallel to each other. Here's a better picture. Step foward and execute an inward block above the elbow. At the same time your rear hand raise up as to potect your chin and grabs your oponents wrist. You then force his shoulder down with your led hand while your rear hand secures his wrist at your shoulder level. You should remember to change your angle. You'll need to be perpendicular to your oponent for leverage, and your arms and body should move as one for best results. This technique can be done closed fisted or with both hands open.
Hope I was clear and not to windy.
1st. The reinforced block starts as an outside block with the supporting hand on the elbow.
2nd. When done high or low it's the classic X block. When down to the outsides it covers most of the upper body. Your arm closet to the attack is facing downward with a slight bend (no locking the elbow) and the arm reaching across your body is a bent V protecting your neck and face. This block covers a lot of territory. I use it to block a wheel kick, then trap the leg by raising the fist that is pointing downward.
3rd. Again your arms are a bent V and both hands are in front and run parallel to each other. Here's a better picture. Step foward and execute an inward block above the elbow. At the same time your rear hand raise up as to potect your chin and grabs your oponents wrist. You then force his shoulder down with your led hand while your rear hand secures his wrist at your shoulder level. You should remember to change your angle. You'll need to be perpendicular to your oponent for leverage, and your arms and body should move as one for best results. This technique can be done closed fisted or with both hands open.
Hope I was clear and not to windy.
TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
we do at my school
OP
Sauzin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #8
So the term double block means two possible things to me. You've got blocks were the hands cross paths and the initial parry is performed with the "non-blocking" hand and then you've got blocks where the "non-blocking" hand ends up in a position that is not chambered. Most common is what is often called the "double mid-block" in which the "non-blocking" hand ends to the side of the blocking arm's elbow in front of the solar plexis. Often both the second and first description apply.
My sensei teaches both. Most if not nearly all the blocks we do in kata meet the first description. The interpretations and reasons for the first double blocking technique are extensive enough to write a book on. Though I must say I greatly appreciate the principle of using the hand that is already extended to perform the initial parry in a bock.
As far as the second description, in the school which I attend we practice Okinawan Kenpo from Seikichi Odo. Odo loved the "double mid-block" and he used it as a primary fighting position to launch many attacks. The way this guy executed the technique he was able to knock a 200lb+ guy across the room like they were a feather (Odo himself weighted less then 80lbs). Tremendous force can be generated to block, uproot, and toss your opponent with this technique. And should you choose to allow your opponent to keep his ground the reverse punch is always ready to launch from the "reinforcing hand" at lightning speed. This also was an Odo calling card.
We also use the other applications mentioned earlier when grappling or playing around. Our primary use however is to use it as a wall to hit the opponent with, the "reinforcing hand" is waiting just behind this wall for the right moment to launch.
-Paul Holsinger
My sensei teaches both. Most if not nearly all the blocks we do in kata meet the first description. The interpretations and reasons for the first double blocking technique are extensive enough to write a book on. Though I must say I greatly appreciate the principle of using the hand that is already extended to perform the initial parry in a bock.
As far as the second description, in the school which I attend we practice Okinawan Kenpo from Seikichi Odo. Odo loved the "double mid-block" and he used it as a primary fighting position to launch many attacks. The way this guy executed the technique he was able to knock a 200lb+ guy across the room like they were a feather (Odo himself weighted less then 80lbs). Tremendous force can be generated to block, uproot, and toss your opponent with this technique. And should you choose to allow your opponent to keep his ground the reverse punch is always ready to launch from the "reinforcing hand" at lightning speed. This also was an Odo calling card.
We also use the other applications mentioned earlier when grappling or playing around. Our primary use however is to use it as a wall to hit the opponent with, the "reinforcing hand" is waiting just behind this wall for the right moment to launch.
-Paul Holsinger
OP
HakamaMan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #9
The way that this sort of block, along with many of what are commonly termed "traditional moves" were actually methods of teaching "outsiders" basic moves while keeping the actual applications secret. In this way, the bulk of the art could be taught, and that practitioner could be very good, but they would not have access to the full compliment of hand positions, techniques, etc. available to a practitioner who was considered a member of the "true" school.
One application of the reinforced block, as we call it in my school, is a simultaneous block and strike, with the "reinforcing" hand doing the striking. The reinforced block is just a method to train your arms to move to the correct areas; ie. an outside block with the left arm, reinforced by the fist of the right arm placed about halfway down the left forearm becomes a left outside block and a right punch to opponent's offending limb.
That's just my take on it. :soapbox:
One application of the reinforced block, as we call it in my school, is a simultaneous block and strike, with the "reinforcing" hand doing the striking. The reinforced block is just a method to train your arms to move to the correct areas; ie. an outside block with the left arm, reinforced by the fist of the right arm placed about halfway down the left forearm becomes a left outside block and a right punch to opponent's offending limb.
That's just my take on it. :soapbox:
