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This is from an Article Sharp Phil linked in another thread. I happen to strongly agree with it, and wanted to share it
Do Firearms Cause Murder...
- Thread starter Cryozombie
- Start date
Agreed with strongly as possible. But there are those who will advocate that guns need to be placed into the hands of the law and the law alone. Others will advocate that guns need to be outlawed-altogether.
That deadly hunk of metal and moving parts is only deadly when someone picks it up. And it's only as deadly as the person using it. Outlaw the persons who have shown irresponsible use of said weaponry and leave the rest of us in peace.
That deadly hunk of metal and moving parts is only deadly when someone picks it up. And it's only as deadly as the person using it. Outlaw the persons who have shown irresponsible use of said weaponry and leave the rest of us in peace.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
No, but they sure as hell make murder and theft easier, while doing nothing for self defense.
If a person decieds to commit a crime or to kill someone they will find a way Gun, axe, ball bat, stone, window glass the list is as endless as what a person can put their hands on.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Yep. Those drive-by axe murders...those moments in which somebody throws a piece of glass and it goes through the wall and through the next wall and into some child...those long-range Presidential assassins with their window-glass...those bank robberies committed with penknives...
Major social issues.
Major social issues.
Huh? There are more incidents of guns being used defensively than offensively (as in crime). However, you won't see as many in the news--because, frankly--they aren't as newsworthy as a murder or a massacre. That is where we are disproportionally, by the media, given the idea that guns are used more for ill purposes by criminals upon innocent people or on victims.
- Ceicei
Yes I think guns can actualy cause murder. There are people so fascinated by guns that they actualy cary them around and challange people to mess with them. Sure you can say it just that person and not the weapon itself; however, I think we all know people that are like this. Look at the martial arts. How many fight stories have you had related to you where you actualy started sympathizing with the guy they are telling you they "had" to beat up? I know a guy that would pull his gun and hold it at peoples heads at parties. Some people should just not be given the godlike power to end life at the push of a button.
One of the things I like about teaching martial arts is that you are giving people the gift of disciplined power. With my knowledge, I could possibly kill someone, yet the time it took to develop the power and the medium in which it was developed filters its usage. Guns, on the other hand, are technological deviced that you can buy cheaply and quickly. A user is standing on the backs of the scientists who created the concepts without a true understanding of just what the technology can do. It is possible to develop disciplined usage with hand guns. The process is long and ardous though. My father spent year teaching us respect for the power of a gun and it was years before I was finally allowed to own one myself. In my opinion this very much was part of my martial arts training.
Imagine this. We live in the Matrix. We can download martial arts directly into our minds in a cheap five minute session. You can pay 100 bucks and suddenly have the skills of a Master and none of the training. How much damage could this person do?
S
Spud
Guest
Guns don't kill people. People with mustaches kill people.
:rofl:
I'm sorry, that's just been stuck in my brain looking for an outlet all week.
:rofl:
I'm sorry, that's just been stuck in my brain looking for an outlet all week.
S
Spud
Guest
Good descriptions upnorthkysosa. That drew a parallel that I was looking to find in my thoughts on this issue.
Admittedly Im very two faced on this issue I feel confident in my judgment and ability to safely handle and store my firearms and I exercise the 2nd amendment guarantees provided in the Bill of Rights. But I think most of my neighbors are too stupid and irresponsible to be afforded those rights.
Then again I think most of my neighbors are too stupid to breed, operate cars or vote. Ouch. Im a little cynical today. Uhm Merry Christmas everyone.
Admittedly Im very two faced on this issue I feel confident in my judgment and ability to safely handle and store my firearms and I exercise the 2nd amendment guarantees provided in the Bill of Rights. But I think most of my neighbors are too stupid and irresponsible to be afforded those rights.
Then again I think most of my neighbors are too stupid to breed, operate cars or vote. Ouch. Im a little cynical today. Uhm Merry Christmas everyone.
No It is the Evil Twin with the Van Dyke that kills people.
Seriously, Guns alone do not kill people. Yes the power and range of a gun does make it much easier to kill someone on purpose or by accicdent. Yet, when people had Stones and/or Spears and/or swords, murder occured and people would ambush the person and stab them. The poinard and the foil were designed for easy stabbing motions that could easily fit between pieces of armor. This combined with the improvement of Firearms, made impractical to wear armor. The benefits did not even come close to the negatives then.
Why is there a Commandment about Thou Shall Not Kill?
Why in the old laws was there an Eye for an Eye, meaning if you killed someone you were killed?
Becuase, humans as social creatures have decided that it is not good or productive for humans or society to have killings just going on. (* Special discompensation was given and still is for times of war *) So, there will always be 'Bad' people in society. They will use what ever weapons are at hand to do their negative acts.
Education and understanding of what is right ethically are the best defenses for the future.
Just my opinion
Without guns they'll just run you over instead.
Without guns the baby dies in the block fire started by an arsonist.
Without guns they just poison polititians
Without guns they just write a note that says, "I have a gun, this is a robbery."
They'll find a way with or without guns.
Phil Elmore
Master of Arts
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Inanimate objects possess neither volition nor intent. Blaming those objects for the actions of people is like blamnig Dungeons and Dragons because little Billy has a hard time separating fantasy from reality.
Yes, there are people who are mentally unstable who will be drawn to things they will then misuse. There are people wandering about who should not own guns. These are the same people who should not be driving cars, teaching in public schools, or preparing and serving food in restaurants.
The weak-minded and the hoplophobic seek to rearrange the characteristics of the physical world such that those who wish to commit harm to others will still wish to do so, but will be physically unable to do so. This is quite impossible and infringes on the rights of law-abiding citizens, who have the inalienable right to protect themselves and their families.
In states that permit private citizens to carry concealed weapons, firearms permit holders commit crime at greatly reduced rates than the public at large. (Crime statistics from Florida, for example, which enacted shall-issue CCW permit legislation relatively recently, bear this out.) The fact is that legal firearms owners are among the most law abiding and the most responsible segments of society.
Firearms do not "cause" anything. Only human beings are capable of taking goal-directed action. Responsibility for individual action begins and ends with the individual.
Yes, there are people who are mentally unstable who will be drawn to things they will then misuse. There are people wandering about who should not own guns. These are the same people who should not be driving cars, teaching in public schools, or preparing and serving food in restaurants.
The weak-minded and the hoplophobic seek to rearrange the characteristics of the physical world such that those who wish to commit harm to others will still wish to do so, but will be physically unable to do so. This is quite impossible and infringes on the rights of law-abiding citizens, who have the inalienable right to protect themselves and their families.
In states that permit private citizens to carry concealed weapons, firearms permit holders commit crime at greatly reduced rates than the public at large. (Crime statistics from Florida, for example, which enacted shall-issue CCW permit legislation relatively recently, bear this out.) The fact is that legal firearms owners are among the most law abiding and the most responsible segments of society.
Firearms do not "cause" anything. Only human beings are capable of taking goal-directed action. Responsibility for individual action begins and ends with the individual.
Well, said.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
I basically agree with this statement.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
And if we're gonna throw cause-and-effect statistics at it, countries with strict gun laws--England and Japan are the obvious examples--have about 1/1000 our murder and violent crime rate.
The essential problem, as was mentioned, is that guns give morons instant power. No discipline, no training--nothing, just power. Martial artists should understand that.
And if you think having your country flooded with arms is just our haappy, innocent exercise of rights, think again. Our country is flooded with arms because corporations like Noronco (Chinese owned) and Colt (American owneed) market them to make money.
I was around guns all the time as a kid. You know the big difference between now and forty years ago? Then, guns were mostly just tools. Certainly, any reader of "Field and Stream," knew about the fancy, and was interested. But now, most people who rant about gun rights aren't ranting about good hunting, or good self-defense. It's my distincct impression that they don't want a good shotgun for birds, a good Marlin or Remington or Ruger for deer and elk. They don't want a good 12 or 14 gauge pump they can load with birdshot and keep in the house just in case. They don't even look forward to the day they can save up and get a good little Parker or Purdey shotgun for skeet and grouse. Those aren't the arms they want to bear.
Be honest with yourself. We're talking a Glock. We're talking a cut-down AR. We're talking a street-sweeper, why shouldn't I have one? We're talking combat handgunning courses for weekend warriors. We're talking sniper school. We're talking I NEED an MP-5, I NEED the Stoner System, I NEED a laser sight. Christmas is upon us. We're talking let's pretend we're warriors, let's get ready for Armageddon, which we know is coming we read those Tim LaHaye books.
Be honest with yourself, even when you respond to this and start yelling. Nobody I ever heard is talking about taking away your hunting rifle. Nobody's talking about taking away your shotgun. Nobody's talking about taking away your tools for hunting and home defense and hobbies and target shooting.
We're talking about taking some of the toys away. That said, I too would prefer a world in which adults made responsible decisions, and did not walk down the street with a gun because it made them feel safer.
The essential problem, as was mentioned, is that guns give morons instant power. No discipline, no training--nothing, just power. Martial artists should understand that.
And if you think having your country flooded with arms is just our haappy, innocent exercise of rights, think again. Our country is flooded with arms because corporations like Noronco (Chinese owned) and Colt (American owneed) market them to make money.
I was around guns all the time as a kid. You know the big difference between now and forty years ago? Then, guns were mostly just tools. Certainly, any reader of "Field and Stream," knew about the fancy, and was interested. But now, most people who rant about gun rights aren't ranting about good hunting, or good self-defense. It's my distincct impression that they don't want a good shotgun for birds, a good Marlin or Remington or Ruger for deer and elk. They don't want a good 12 or 14 gauge pump they can load with birdshot and keep in the house just in case. They don't even look forward to the day they can save up and get a good little Parker or Purdey shotgun for skeet and grouse. Those aren't the arms they want to bear.
Be honest with yourself. We're talking a Glock. We're talking a cut-down AR. We're talking a street-sweeper, why shouldn't I have one? We're talking combat handgunning courses for weekend warriors. We're talking sniper school. We're talking I NEED an MP-5, I NEED the Stoner System, I NEED a laser sight. Christmas is upon us. We're talking let's pretend we're warriors, let's get ready for Armageddon, which we know is coming we read those Tim LaHaye books.
Be honest with yourself, even when you respond to this and start yelling. Nobody I ever heard is talking about taking away your hunting rifle. Nobody's talking about taking away your shotgun. Nobody's talking about taking away your tools for hunting and home defense and hobbies and target shooting.
We're talking about taking some of the toys away. That said, I too would prefer a world in which adults made responsible decisions, and did not walk down the street with a gun because it made them feel safer.
Evidently you've never had your home broken into and threatened with rape? You've never worked in a store that was robbed? You've never been mugged?
There are criminals out there that have no regard for any laws. Reality is, there are places where you cannot really walk down the street safely. A functional gun may make a difference between life and death in self defense.
BTW, crime statistics for England has increased partly because of their gun bans.
- Ceicei
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Yes...but to contrast that; Canada has more lenient gun laws then many of our states and municipalities, yet there crime rate is much less then ours in a similar way.
I don't think our crime rate is the fault of gun laws. More so it is the fault of the culture of fear and violence that we have created.
PAUL
Oh geez, well I guess I'm a murderer since I haven't shaved my moustache since 91' (trimmed it but not shaved)... (
I know you were just kidding... so was I):asian:
Have you ever worked in a place that had an employee kill everyone he could find? You know the secerateries you always flirted with. Well I have. It happened after I left but It happened. I wait for it to happen everytime we fire someone where I work now. We can play the have you ever game all day.
Sean
