Digging Deeper....

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Spinedoc, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    This has been my thought on Aikido (Ueshiba's, as well as the overall aiki concept) for some time. Even within NGA, I teach the aiki as a higher level concept, though I start the foundations of it early. It works best (by far) when there's a strong foundation of non-aiki principles and techniques to build upon.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think Hapkido's approach, if I understand it correctly, is a bit closer to NGA's. The "aiki" (hapki??) is a part of the art, and not all of the art. It gives it some character and adds some tools.
     
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't think most instructors share that view. I think that's unfortunate. Ueshiba's early students were (so far as I know) all accomplished martial artists. Aikido worked for them because of that, and they liked it because it was useful to them in improving what they already knew.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some folks study Aikido (I think especially in Shin-shin Toitsu) as a study of ki (and aiki), rather than as a combat system.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think early Aikido (pre WWII) still had combat focus to some extent.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Especially after WWII, there was little distinction for Ueshiba from what I can tell.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    I'm prepared to believe in " chi" as a number of real physiological and psychological , process that result from exercises and meditation lumped together by people who had no medical knowledge and called ki. However any one who is selling you qi is a snake oil sales man as its totally unquantifiable. They can't even decide how it's spelt
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed. I teach about ki in my classes, and start that teaching by explaining that it's just a shorthand for something - organization of muscles, use of structure in cooperation with gravity, relaxation and tension, weight shifts and directionality, etc. It's just easier to say "extend your ki" as a shorthand for "extend your arm with relaxed tension, being sure to not tense the opposing muscles, while lowering your center of gravity and staying centered over your stance".
     
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  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    while your post is humorous, the problem is not theirs its yours. Ki is Japanese and Chi is Chinese. and they know how to spell it quite reliably. the issue is yours that you cant distinquish between two different cultures and the fact that you cant read their writing, in their language, so you romanize it into your own.
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    My friend Armando Flores may disagree with you on this. One day Armando and another Karate instructor visited me. I told them that there was a local Karate tournament in Austin (1977). 3 of us brought our soft Karate gloves and competed in that tournament. A week later, Armando was kicked out of his Aikido Association.

    IMO, your MA teacher may lead you into the MA door. How you will develop your combat skill will be up to yourself.

     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm missing how that's counter to the statement you quoted.

    I'm also curious what the reason was that they gave for kicking him out of the association.
     
  12. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    My love for martial arts is only rivaled by my distaste for religion.

    The thought of the latter tainting and polluting the former makes me cringe a little.
     
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  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Whether a MA style is good for combat or not may depend on you and may not depend on your MA instructor.

    In his Aikido Association, to compete in public tournament was not allowed.
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is about bang for buck.

    So as one of my coaches said to me. Everything you find in judo you will find in wrestling. And they have the better training ethic.

    If what Aikido as a whole system had that sort of value. Aikido fighters would be out there beating people.

    Otherwise time is taken away from training in a system that will progress the martial artist
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes and no.

    The idea is it might have a timing or sensitivity advantage that is useful. But not in itself evident.

    Like yoga. I could do yoga and not be able to fight my way out of a wet paper bag.

    But I could do yoga and BJJ and be better at BJJ because of it.
     
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  16. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    if it's not EVIDENT, ie there us no EVIDENCE for it then it doesn't exist, you might as well claim the fairies are helping you
     
  17. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    Jobo VS drop bear .....in an argument.
    this should be entertaining. let me get some popcorn.
     
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  18. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    In that there would be 0 passive agressive dilly -dallying or subject dodging or overly sensitive feelings involved, it would indeed. A refreshing change really
     
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  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    No subject dodging from Jobo??
     
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  20. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    Not that I've noticed. Where he seems to get people is holding on to points that have been defeated long after their death, but it usually seems to be on topic.
     

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