Different/Multiple Curriculum?

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - Technical Discussion' started by JesterX, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. JesterX

    JesterX White Belt

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    I've been learning Shaolin Kempo for some time. I loved it. Teachers were really good and some of the techniques are simply amazing.

    Unfortunatly, I stepped down from my training for a few years. And now I feel that I'm ready to get back to it.

    The schools near where I live are descendants of a different branchs of the quite large kempo tree. (Nick Cerio's Kempo and Jean-Guy Angell (a student of George Pesare's Kempo)).

    I know that Georges Pesare was the teacher of Nick Cerio and Nick Cerio was the teacher of Fred Villari. But the differences are amazing!

    For instance, in Georges Pesare's they don't seem to have animal techniques or any kind of "named/numeroted" techniques. An aspect that I don't like.

    Is it possible for me to still use and even "augment" my current curriculum with both style without too much conflict?

    I loved Shaolin Kempo so much that I'll regret badly if I can't learn new techniques.
     
  2. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Here is a site that gives the history and the branch splits.
    http://www.umaassociation.com/history.html

    I would say that you could augment and expand on it. The all come from the same root so there will be a lot more alike than different.
     
  3. marlon

    marlon Master Black Belt

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    The branches can have many differences, yet one can augment ones skills with something as different as taiji or boxing even. The important thing is tio keep a solid base system. Nothing wrong with shopping around and finding what you like but mastery takes dedication, so my suggestion is findf what you like and focus there using everything else you learn to get better and understand deeper your base system.

    Respectfully,
    Marlon
     
  4. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

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    Hello, Anything new or different...is good for learning as much as you can kind of thing.

    Judo is good to learn and can be alot more than you think...especially when you learn about the combat side of JUDO!

    Kempo- lots of fast,multiple hits, quick movements....great when two people just standing there and the other guy does not protect himself.

    As I watch MMA's and other sports like them...I always wonder " How come they don't do multiple hits like in KEMPO?

    or in Kick boxing? Do you see this as big part of the Gracie systems?

    Kempo has many great moves against a standing target...but when they sparr....do you see those techinques use in every match?

    At Our Kempo tournments..even the 8th degrees do not use those 1-21 techniques as taught us...!

    Kung-fu movies...you see it all the time? ...ever wonder why?

    Watch real street fighting...or gang fighting..or bar fights..then compare it? ...with what you are learning....especially if they have Kempo backgrounds...

    or watch two black belt in real fights...most times...you will see NO martial stuffs near the end.

    Change is good...learn as must as you can...Aloha
     
  5. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Hmmm, comparing apples to oranges on what the techniques are designed to be used for doesn't really help anyone. There is a world of difference between watching to people spar in a cage and defending yourself from a drunk in a bar. People forget that the techniques are designed to provide an initial response and then add variables to you can be more free thinking. One of the main styles to influence kenpo has a famous quote that says "If it isn't over in three moves, you need to step back and figure out what you are doing wrong." So of course you aren't going to whip through all of the strikes in it, you are going to use what's needed.
     
  6. sifubry

    sifubry White Belt

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    There's two parts to my reply.

    First, studying from different masters on the same lineage is eye-opening and often beneficial. I would caution you to learn one well (say black belt level) before starting or investigating another line.

    As Marlon said, something a different art may provide more feedback. I took Tai Chi on a whim and learned alot about waist power and proper stances. Ask my thighs, they remember. Jujutsu (the standing type not BJJ) taught me more about proper throws, locks and ground locks. I also learned that SKK is a kissing cousin of Jujustu with out locks, hocks and throws.

    The second point is about doing combo 1-21 in an actual fight. I always understood the techniques to be bundles of fighting components that we can mix and match to meet the needs of the conflict. You may start with one combo, put in part of another and end with a kempo.

    From my own experience:

    • A guy grabed my wrist, one wrist lock later his knees hurt hitting the concrete so fast. Learned it in class but not combo 1-21
    • I've done combo 7 and 6 on people coming in to hit me. They stopped when I looked at them sternly.
    • Some drunk guy pushed me, i blocked and pushed him back with jing force (ripple strike) 'cause I didn't want to hit him. this was a modified grab defense learned in dojo
    • Did a modified 17 again because I didn't want to hit the guy. slapped him on the face instead
    What these tell me is we do use the combos as they are intended, both as taught and as elements to insert to the situation. There are an infinite (or slightly less) possible ways an attack can happen. I can't learn a response to each one. Rather I need to have some principles or pieces ready to stitch together depending on who is in the room, who the attacker is, what is the threat level and are my kids watching.

    Long post, not sure if it was clear. Anyway, that's my two cents.
     
  7. kenpo3631

    kenpo3631 Black Belt

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    History is great! But the real questoin I have is why Nick Cerio left Ed Parker's Association? As an aside why did he "steal" the names of Ed Parker's Kenpo techniques for his own system?
     
  8. Yondanchris

    Yondanchris Master Black Belt

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    Im certainly sure somone will come in a fix this misunderstanding.

    Nick Cerio and SGM Parker where to my knowledge associated through
    affection for Kenpo and not so much direct lineage or training. Cerio spend some time learning other forms of Kenpo during his heyday.

    My humble and ignorant .02 cents

    Chris
     
  9. Gentle Fist

    Gentle Fist Master Black Belt

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    I have heard from multiple kenpo seniors that Cerio was encouraged by SGM Parker to use names for the self defense techniques instead of the letters and numbers that Kajukenbo uses.

    Not really sure why he left the Association the second time... He was promoted to 9th Dan by Parker in 1983 and left only a few months after that...
     

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