Hey I am aware that this is probably a very n00b question but I'm gonna ask regardless cause I really wanna no the answer lol. What exactlymakes a throw a throw and a takdown a takedown? I know some techniques that are throws and some that are takedowns and i really cant see a defining characteristic that makes one a throw and the other a takedown lol. If any one could enlighten me I'd greatly appreciate it, lol. thanks in advance!!
Difference between throws and takedowns??
- Thread starter mad_boxer
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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
They both put the bad guy on the ground. In a throw, there is a reception phase (coming in close and latching on), and a projection phase...THROWING the guy; literally tossing him over or around some fulcrum point created by the anatomical relationships created during the reception phase.
A take-down is anything that takes the guy down, and the projection phase is often less dramatic...you can latch onto him, and simply fall to the floor, letting gravity do the work for you, or you can employ negative alignment in a take-down...twist a joint against the normal range of motion, and steer the bad guys body towards the ground while it tries to figure out how to make the pain stop.
This is a pretty simplistic explanation, but I hope it clarifies.
Dave
A take-down is anything that takes the guy down, and the projection phase is often less dramatic...you can latch onto him, and simply fall to the floor, letting gravity do the work for you, or you can employ negative alignment in a take-down...twist a joint against the normal range of motion, and steer the bad guys body towards the ground while it tries to figure out how to make the pain stop.
This is a pretty simplistic explanation, but I hope it clarifies.
Dave
Infinite
Brown Belt
Takedowns are for when you know or have no other choice to control or regain as such. You use them to change the flow of the flight.
Throws are intended to give you some breathing room. So if I a guy grabs you from behind and you don' thave a lot of options... if you throw him over your shoulder you can get some distance but more importantly time.
There are some very few principals of fighting but I'm not sure I am qualified to talk on many of them.
I would for example suddenly rushed by someone. If I was partly aware I may just accept the rush and go down moving as I did (Takedown) or toss him so he kept moving (throw).
Last Fearner
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You could classify any technique which results in your opponent landing on the ground as a "take-down" - so even a "throw" could be viewed as a form of a "take-down." Each person might define these actions in their own terms, but if you want a defining characteristic between throws and take-downs, here is my perspective.
A Take-down brings the opponent to the ground without their body going completely airborne. If one or both of your opponent's feet remains on ground during the fall, then it could be classified as a "Take-down." On the other hand, if you completely lift your opponent off the ground, but their return to the mat is by means of their weight being supported by your body, then gradually "dumped" to the floor, this would also be a "Take-down" (for example: the wrestling type of double-leg take-down, or "fireman's carry" take-down).
Conversely, if the opponent is uprooted, and goes completely airborne, even for the slightest moment, then it becomes a throw. Your opponent could be "swept" off their feet, have their legs "reaped" out from under them, or be lofted simply by off balancing enough to cause a fall (IE: a "floating drop" thow) Also, if the weight of your opponent is "boosted" through the use of a fulcrum, then freely dropped or slammed to the ground, then it becomes a "throw." The "fireman's carry take-down" becomes a "shoulder wheel throw" when the opponent is tossed freely, rather than "dumped" while maintaining body control.
When I was in High School wrestling, "throws" were not permitted because of the inherent danger from the impact of the fall. If a wrestler picks their opponent up, they are responsible for their "safe" return to the mat. Thus, a wrestling take-down is designed to simple bring your opponent from a standing posture, to a lying posture to engage in grappling. A throw, on the other hand, is primarily designed to cause injury from the impact of the fall.
This is just my interpretation, and might not fit everyone's definition.
CM D.J. Eisenhart
Kenpojujitsu3
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Gotta disagree with this almost entirely. If I am clinched by someone against my will I can still Throw them to change the course of the fight. I can also double leg takedown someone not to "change the course" of anything. I can double leg them because the opening was there and I wanted it. I can also be in total control and double leg them with various set ups. This defintion is just...off.
I may be off base here, but it seems to me that a takedown means that you're going down with him, while a throw would mean you're sending him by himself.
Kenpojujitsu3
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Yes this is a little off, you can throw him and still go down with him (Drop Seio Nage anyone?). Throw involves a projection and/or lift. Takedown involves just a drop or trip
Perhaps I should have said going down and staying with him, as in controllng him, for a takedown:uhyeah: . True, you can go down and still project him, which is definetly a throw.
