deversifying martial arts (or clearing up myths)

[Ceicei]

Some people say that once you become very well acquainted with one style (ie. A black belt), another style could then be studied. The theory behind that, according to others, is to have a deeper appreciation of various martial arts and a more varied approach to life situations.

I'm into Kenpo (considered "hard style"). I was thinking of picking up a "soft style" martial arts later on. I am mulling the possibility of either Aikido or Judo. [However, this will not happen any time soon anyway. I'm trying to learn about what other styles are like before I actually study anything different years, years later down the road.]

Questions:
1) What are the pros and cons of picking up another style versus just sticking with the same style and going on up (2nd/3rd dan)?

2) How difficult would it be to "switch gears"?

3) How is Aikido different from Judo?

It surprised me when someone informed me that Judo has more strikes than Aikido does. I was under the impression Aikido was "hard" not "soft" (think Steven Seagel), but that it is closer to Judo, not at all similar to karate. Is that true?

Please help clear up the myths swimming around in my mind.

Thanks,
Ceicei

 

[twinkletoes]

1) There is a difference between "switching" from one style to another and "adding" another style to your training regimen.

To switch completely from one style to another after reaching black belt is OK, but I think you will feel like you lost your first style once you have made the switch.

To add another style once you are proficient will enhance your understanding of the first one. Don't give up the first one, just start studying the second one. They will help your understanding of the martial arts.

2) Difficulty depends on you. How well do you switch gears? How hard is it for you to unlearn things, especially physical maneuvers? How much is each art like your personality? Will you have a tough time with a "soft art" because your personality is an aggressive one?

3) Judo is a martial sport. It is practiced under a set of rules. There are two components to sport judo: throwing and groundwork (pinning, choking, and locking). Advanced Judo practice addresses striking, but does not include it in the competition. The major principle of Judo is to "pull when pushed, push when pulled" in order to make use of your opponent's effort to your benefit.

Aikido is a martial art that focuses on blending with your opponent's energies. Most practice is cooperative, unlike sportive judo. Emphasis is on throwing and locking, with some pinning (using primarily the arms, rather than the whole body as in Judo). Aikido's techniques might be described as more subtle than Judo's, when it comes to off-balancing and throwing. There is usually little striking in Aikido, except as a distraction or setup. The idea of Aikido is to harmonize with and redirect your parner's energies, or "turn when pushed, enter when pulled."

As you can see, the theoretical framework between the two seems similar. In practice they are very different. It really boils down to this:

Aikido practice is much more cooperative. Judo practice is much more competitive.

~TT

PS - By the way, neither one of these would be considered a true "soft style" because the movements are still based in Japanese Jujutsu and swordsmanship. For a true "soft style" you would want to look into some of the chinese martial arts, like Tai Chi or Pa Kwa.

 

[Ceicei]

Thank you, TT.

Your explanation and suggestions are very helpful and thought-provoking.

- Ceicei

 

[theletch1]

I can't really add a lot to the previous post. It's very well written. I can add a bit of personal perspective to your particular situation. I studied kenpo for 2 years and loved it. Due to a lot of odd circumstances I left my kenpo school in search of another. As no other kenpo schools were available to me I had to find another style completely. I researched every school in the area to avoid another bad budo situation and settled on the local nihon goshin aikido dojo. I'm loving the art. I still practice the kenpo with a couple of my fellow former students on my own time and the theories in the aikido have helped tremendously in the kenpo. The kenpo has as well helped in the aikido. The only draw back that I have encountered is my tendency for hard blocks. Aikido has very few hard blocks as it requires a good deal of energy to absorb the shock from a hard punch, and the hard block stops the forward momentum of your attacker. In aikido the attackers own energy is essential to the technique.

Having the aikido for cross training would help your foot work in kenpo as aikido foot work is very "flowing". As you progress in aikido you become very aware of your opponents energy and the minute changes in body mechanics which give you an almost erie sense of what he/she will do next. (I'm no where near this point myself, but my sensei can really freak me out by seeming to read my mind). Having the kenpo under your belt will aid the aikido training with a better understanding of atemi (strikes) and finishing moves.

Martial art is knowledge and knowledge is power. The more the better, I say.

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by theletch1
The kenpo has as well helped in the aikido. The only draw back that I have encountered is my tendency for hard blocks. Aikido has very few hard blocks....
Having the aikido for cross training would help your foot work in kenpo as aikido foot work is very "flowing". As you progress in aikido you become very aware of your opponents energy and the minute changes in body mechanics which give you an almost erie sense of what he/she will do next.

Having the kenpo under your belt will aid the aikido training with a better understanding of atemi (strikes) and finishing moves.

Martial art is knowledge and knowledge is power. The more the better, I say.

Sounds fascinating! I'm not sure if there is an aikido school nearby. What I will do first is to make sure I have a strong foundation in Kenpo then when I get to green or brown belt, I will look into cross training with a different style.

- Ceicei

 

[twinkletoes]

One thing that I did not really mention in my first post, but probably should have, is that the training methodology between judo and aikido could not be farther apart. Because of that, the skills developed are drastically different.

If you are looking for something that you could actually use, in a real situation, against a real opponent, study judo. What you will learn through judo's "competitive" practice is how to overcome someone who is really trying to stop you--in fact, he will know the exact same technique, and the best ways to counter it. This will hone your skills in overcoming real resistance.

By the same token, if you are looking for actual usable skills, MANY (not all, but many) of the aikido schools out there will have nothing to offer you. Their practice will be entirely cooperative, and depend upon the compliance, if not the assistance, of your partner when completing many techniques. It is extremely rare to find an aikido school in which actual usable skills are developed.

So what I should have added to my above post is this: your goals in cross-training will greatly influence what styles you should pursue. If you are coming from karate, think about sparring. Do you feel that learning to use your techniques against a live, resisiting opponent is important? If so, you will be much happier crosstraining in styles like judo, bjj, wrestling, boxing, or muay thai. If you think that sparring "isn't what karate's about" for you, and you are doing martial arts for artistic purposes, then check out just about anything else, but especially styles like aikido and tai chi.

Hope this helps,

~TT

 

[theletch1]

Their practice will be entirely cooperative, and depend upon the compliance, if not the assistance, of your partner when completing many techniques. It is extremely rare to find an aikido school in which actual usable skills are developed

Nihon goshin aikido has two basic components to our training. We have classic technique which is exactly what you described above. This is highly stylized and of almost no use on the street. Almost like kata, it does rely on compliance and cooperation of uke (your training partner). The goal of classic tech is perfection of the technique.

The other component is technique application. This is done by having uke attack you with various kicks and punches. Speed and intensity is governed by both training partners skill and personal intensity level. If you go at it full force or even 3/4 speed it is very close to real. Nihon Goshin is not an off shoot of O'Sensei's style but does have a great many similarities. By the same token, I have found NGA to be very usable. I can't speak for all styles of aikido so what I am putting forth here is only for my particualr style. I've never studied judo so I will not attempt to detract from the style nor BS you by attempting to discuss the finer points.

As Twinkletoes stated, many, not all schools will be worthless but that goes as much for any style as for aikido. It has a lot to do with you, what you take away from the training and the instructor. Try a few free classes at several different schools and see which one fits the best.

 

[Ceicei]

Thank you very much! I wasn't aware that there are distinct differences in teaching approaches with Aikido and Judo. That does have an impact on what I will choose to cross train in the future.

- Ceicei