Degrading other schools

[hogstooth]

In another thread titled "could Mcdojo be a good thing" Touch of Death stated that if you ask a school what they think of your school they would say that you are a McDojo.
Why is that? Unless they are a true McDojo just pushing out 5 year old BB, why would one school knock another? There is many Korean schools in my town and I am only one of two schools that teach Okinawan Karate. Out of the many schools there are only a few that are what I would concider a McDojo. The others are ran by highly qualified instructors and a few of my students take classes from them as well as me. I don't have a problem with this because they are getting good instruction. Hell I encourage them to continue. Who am I to stand in the way of a students progress.
I think if one school is down grading another legitimate school then I say the have lost site of the true meaning of what we do. We teach. Isn't it the whole concept of what we are here for? To give our students every opportunity to better themselves? If they want to learn why hold them back? If they find something there that they don't get at our school then that is not a reflection on the other school it is a reflection on us and up to us to improve. I see it as a good thing. It is competition and it is healthy. It makes us strive to be better teachers.
A lot of members have discussed cross training. How did your sensei feel about that or did you ask? Did they down grade the other school and call it a mcdojo or did they encourage you?
My only responsibility to my students in the situation is to warn them about the McDojos or just bad instructors and encourage them to follow the path we all have chose. Past that I will not hold one of my students back and I certainly will not cut down another school if it is legitimate and producing well rounded skilled students. How do you feel about this? Do you encourage your students to try something new or do you knock it down for fear of loosing a paying student?
Most of my students that cross train do it while training with me and I haven't lost many. But the ones I have lost to other good instructors I wished them the best and were happy that they are choosing to remain on the path I set them on.

 

[terryl965]

I try not to but sometimes we all get cought up with the BS of everyday life.

 

[14 Kempo]

I agree with the OP, I am one of those that encourage people to try other arts and, although I'm a fairly new school, I can not think of one student that has left me for another art. However, two come immediately to mind that are with me because of it. I also have a few students that cross-train, I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[terryl965]

I agree with the OP, I am one of those that encourage people to try other arts and, although I'm a fairly new school, I can not think of one student that has left me for another art. However, two come immediately to mind that are with me because of it. I also have a few students that cross-train, I see nothing wrong with it.

I agree cross training is great enjoy and have fun learn from whoever you can.

 

[tko4u]

While I do believe in a difference of standard in schools, I do not believe in knocking them publically. Other schools may not be on the same standard, but may have what other people are looking for.

 

[geezer]

Most of my students that cross train do it while training with me and I haven't lost many. But the ones I have lost to other good instructors I wished them the best and were happy that they are choosing to remain on the path I set them on.

Your attitude marks you as one of the "good ones". I'd bet that even the students who left your school to study a different style have good things to say about you. That's something the insecure instructors who go around bad-mouthing everybody else will never learn.

 

[Deaf Smith]

There is only one reason to badmouth another school. And that is if the instructor is a dishonest cheat and a fraud (and a blant one at that) that is a total embarisment and black mark on the martial arts, all martial arts.

Except for that rare circumstance above, ones effort should be on improving their school and if possible develope contacts with the other schools and even host joint tournaments and exibitions. In short, not really partners but not really competitors either.

Deaf

 

[hogstooth]

There is only one reason to badmouth another school. And that is if the instructor is a dishonest cheat and a fraud (and a blant one at that) that is a total embarisment and black mark on the martial arts, all martial arts.

Except for that rare circumstance above, ones effort should be on improving their school and if possible develope contacts with the other schools and even host joint tournaments and exibitions. In short, not really partners but not really competitors either.

Deaf

I agree and know pretty much all of the other instructors. I would not say we are friends but we have a mutual respect.

 

[Brian S]

Nah, some schools and styles just suck.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I try not to discuss other schools in the area with any but my ranking students. They have been with me long enough to figure things out for themselves and we can chat about what we see without worrying about any of us repeating the conversations.
If someone outside of my students asks I either say I don't know much about the school ( if i don't like it or the instructor), Go see for yourself ( for the same reason), or compliment the instructor ( if he/she deserves it)

 

[celtic_crippler]

Usually one of two reasons:
(1) Deep down they are insecure and don't have as much faith in what they teach/practice as they would have you believe and are afraid there might be "something better out there."
(2) Money. They want the revenue from students and feel they can elivate themselves as the better school be degrading other schools.

On rare occasions, there may actually be a legitimate criticism of a nearby school....but I do think that is rare compared to the other two reasons.

I've been on the mat with reps from many various schools in our area from very traditional Japanese styles to MMA. Only once did we have a criticism of a fellow because of his skill, or lack thereof, that claimed to be a "black belt" in his own system that he called ....Kim-Chi I believe.... which I later was told is Korean for cabbage. LOL

 

[zDom]

While I do believe in a difference of standard in schools, I do not believe in knocking them publically. Other schools may not be on the same standard, but may have what other people are looking for.

Well said!

 

[BrandonLucas]

When you enter into the martial arts, you enter into a world of respect. It is very disrespectful to degrade someone else's school publically, for whatever reason.

Even if the school is a McDojo, opinions about the school should be kept private unless they are participating in illegal activities. Your opinion is your opinion, and you have the right to share your opinion. Just be mindful of who you share you opinion with...you don't want to cause someone to have bad business, since you wouldn't want to have someone cause you bad business in the same manner.

The golden rule applies here: Treat others the way you want to be treated.

 

[Josh Oakley]

What should a good instructor fear by their students wanting to cross train. When a student asks me if he can, what that tells me is two things:

1) A zeal of knowledge has been instilled in the student.
2) He has a high enough oppinion of me to want to know my thoughts.

In general, I encourage students to cross-train. I do myself, so to discourage cross-training would be hipocritical. There are some exceptions, though. I discourage it for a brand new student because it seems to create too much confusion. I tell them to build up a base before cross-training.

The other type of student I discourage is the bull-heads. The ones who are impatient and want to learn everything now. These are the same guys you're constantly telling in class to focus, focus, work the drill, quit goofing off. If I do encourage them to cross-train, I make sure to find out where they're going so the other instructor knows what he's going up against. Half the time the bull-heads either quit cross-training for a while because the other guy tells them "focus, focus, work the drill" and finally get serious about martial arts, or they quit alltogether and free up time to focus on someone more serious.

So either way it's a win- win.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

I know all to well about this. The style I study has been bashed time and time again because of the "associations" lack of keeping the story straight about the founder. It seems people made up or changed the story along the line. I don't care about that really. the style works for me and for the most part has many good instructors. (Mine was not one of them because of arrogance and other things but that is another story) The art is not to blame. Many times it is the ego that I find is to blame for these problems, or a grudge against someone a particular person didn't like.

My personal opinion is its up to the individuals who train under the art... not the art itself that makes it bogus.

 

[zDom]

My personal opinion is its up to the individuals who train under the art... not the art itself that makes it bogus.

A lot of truth in that statement.

 

[HKphooey]

I used to be a sales trainer and that one lesson I taught... Never bad mouth the competition!!!!! No need to bad mouth, just give the customer (or student) an education on what questions to ask the other school and let them formulate their own opinion.

 

[hogstooth]

Usually one of two reasons:
(1) Deep down they are insecure and don't have as much faith in what they teach/practice as they would have you believe and are afraid there might be "something better out there."
(2) Money. They want the revenue from students and feel they can elivate themselves as the better school be degrading other schools.

On rare occasions, there may actually be a legitimate criticism of a nearby school....but I do think that is rare compared to the other two reasons.

I've been on the mat with reps from many various schools in our area from very traditional Japanese styles to MMA. Only once did we have a criticism of a fellow because of his skill, or lack thereof, that claimed to be a "black belt" in his own system that he called ....Kim-Chi I believe.... which I later was told is Korean for cabbage. LOL

I appreciate your point of view. IMO I think that is probably at the heart of it.

 

[Kacey]

As a general rule, I don't badmouth other schools; it just makes for bad feelings. If they've been around long enough for people to ask, then they must be doing something that their students appreciate. In the long run, quality will win out... but "quality" is a subjective term, and quality to one person may not be to another. I'd much rather hear someone say why they are good than why the competition is bad - because all that tells me is that the person is willing to talk rudely behind another's back, hardly a good recommendation in my eyes.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Usually one of two reasons:
(1) Deep down they are insecure and don't have as much faith in what they teach/practice as they would have you believe and are afraid there might be "something better out there."
(2) Money. They want the revenue from students and feel they can elivate themselves as the better school be degrading other schools.

On rare occasions, there may actually be a legitimate criticism of a nearby school....but I do think that is rare compared to the other two reasons.

I've been on the mat with reps from many various schools in our area from very traditional Japanese styles to MMA. Only once did we have a criticism of a fellow because of his skill, or lack thereof, that claimed to be a "black belt" in his own system that he called ....Kim-Chi I believe.... which I later was told is Korean for cabbage. LOL

You pretty much sum it up.

Not to sure about Kim-Chi, though it is a Korean dish, but a friend told me once that his brother practiced ban-do, which I believe is an actual martial art, but I just couldn't shake the image of the automotive body filler with similarly pronounced name.

Daniel