Dealing with the Homeless

[Phil Elmore]

Your posts weren't the ones I had in mind with my response, BB.

 

[lost_tortoise]

It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how reasonable or unreasonable a discussion of this sort becomes, everyone skirts the fundamental dynamic at the root of all of these problems.

Reading assignment for today....and the future:

WWW.VHEMT.ORG

 

[Phil Elmore]

Do you believe the root problem is overpopulation, then?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
Do you believe the root problem is overpopulation, then?

The problem is I'm being harrassed by druggies with bad attitudes
and major hygeine problems that feel I MUST GIVE to them. They
get mean, and hostile.

Yet that makes ME the one that doesn't care, and that could give
a crap about humanity. What about the poor
involuntarily celibate middle class suit who makes a sexual
comment to a female in the workplace? He's just going without,
poor guy. But with his words, the female is "victimized", and the
homeless crack addict shouldn't be accosted cause he's spewing
bile on me, mad that I won't provide him with his next high, and
threatening me, my wife, and my property as a result is the one
being "victimized" ????

Whatever.

 

[lost_tortoise]

Yes, that is exactly what I believe. Indeed, it is not so much overpopulation as much as it is the very presence of humans in any concentration that is at the root of all of societies' problems. Reading the website will be of more value than arguing these points with me as Les submits these truths in a more succinct and often witty manner than I ever could.

 

[arnisador]

I question many of the statistics ("most" etc.) I have seen used here. I also think that, as someone else mentioned, a distinction should be drawn between "homeless" and "street people".

Clearly, one must be careful around street people. Whether they are at fault or mentally ill and hence not fully responsible for their actions is immaterial if you are stabbed. I have heard of other stories such as Mr. Billings'.

Aggressive panhandling is a safety problem and a quality of life issue. I have had problems with aggressive panhandlers in San Francisco and Toronto. (I also use some variation of the "scratch my chest" stance.) Of course, some people in such situations may see no other avenue than panhandling.

While in Toronto I saw, several times, teenagers panhandling. I saw some get dropped off in nice cars, throw a shoddy blanket over their nice clothes, and pretend to be in need of spare change. It was clearly being done to make pocket change for people with homes and other assets. I have also heard in some big cities that non-homeless individuals have sometimes taking to the squeegee approach because they found it pays well--crowding out the truly desperate.

We do have to be vigiliant. I think we also have to be compassionate.

I read Mr. Elmore's article and found it lacking in compassion and sensitivity. One doesn't need to "demonize the opposition" in order to recognize a threat. A severely mentally ill person and a bolt of lightning can each kill you just as dead, but neither are responsible for doing so. The "vile refuse of humanity" to quote Mr. Elmore aren't homeless, poor, and/or diseased on purpose, even if they made the decisions that led them there. I find Mr. Elmore's lack of compassion quite distressing.

 

[theletch1]

Life is guerilla warfare. Everyone is a potential enemy and you never know where the next bullet is gonna come from. Going through life with the above attitude may not be conducive to utopia but I believe it will get ya through life. I don't believe for a second that all homeless/street people are out to cut my throat for the change in my pocket (I'm married, therefore I have no money anyway) but I refuse to let my guard down around anyone that I don't know. The discussion has dealt with the AGGRESIVE panhandler. I've met a few folks who were new to the street, truly just down on their luck and they were humiliated by their circumstances and you could tell it in their approach. I have also seen men and women who seemed almost to relish the act of panhandling. I guess this would be the difference in the homeless and street people. I'm not by nature a cold hearted person, but I will do what I have to do to get home to my wife and kids every day. Every individual on the street must be dealt with as just that.... an individual. Each encounter must be quickly and correctly evaluated, no mistakes allowed.
Just as Phil has been lambasted for making his blanket statement denegrating the homeless, how many others are guilty of blanket assumptions on the opposite end of the spectrum? Do you really believe that all homeless/street people are just poor lost souls in need of a gentle nudge and a handout to get back on their feet? How soon before that hand comes back with a few less fingers on it? When the phrase "If it helps just ONE person, it will be worth it." entered the American lexicon the majority stopped ruling and common sense was murdered.
By the way, I like the fence stance but will also use the "Jack Benny" stance if I feel that it is more appropriate for the situation.
Great article Phil. If nothing else it definetly got the thought process kicked into high gear.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Good to know that all the liberal BS about Christ healing lepers, and that miserable, ACLU-inspired nonsense on the Statue of Liberty (she's French, you know--what can you expect?) about, "the wretched refuse of your teeming shores," has been done away with.

 

[Baoquan]

I've been asked for change before. Sometimes, i say "Sure." Other times, i say "No, Sorry."

Never have I felt the need to brand them "human filth" or "manimals" (sic ).

Phil, i dont know you from adam, but if panhandling is the worst thing happening to you on ur average day, count yourself lucky.

Cheers

B

 

[J-kid]

1. Seeing a intresting story on 60 mins about a lawyer that lost it all(wasnt his fault) was sleeping on the beach and trying to get it together and get a job. It amazed me how hard he tryed to get a shower and look desent so he would be able to get the most basic job. These type of storys remind me that these people are humans and alot of times are just victoms of surcomstances.


Also if you go down town you can see teens/kids grandparents digging threw dumps and taking half eaten apples out of the trash because they just want something to eat. If you cant spair a dollar or dont have it on you then nothing much you can do. But if you just size them up and decide that because of your 90$ shoes you are better then them, Take another look in the mirror....

Ok here is another question what should we do about the older people who are almost homeless need medical supplies that have to eat Dog Food to survive. I find we ignore them some being veterans who have fought in our wars for us. (AKA forgotten heros)

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
...Which is exactly why you must keep them at a distance. Unfortunately, the choice of whether the situation then becomes "bloody" is generally up to them.

I haven't read every post in this thread but think that in this case you are wrong. I'm sure that if you are nice to them when refusing to give them they don't all go nuts and attack you. I'm willing to bet it's a very very small percentage in which case the responsibility would be more on yourself than them if it turned bloody. I'm sure if you come across an excessively violent one you would have no real choice but a majority of people respond well to kindness and respect regardless of their situation. If you have to give the occasional one a dollar well so be it, it's better than getting in a fight.

Cheers
Sammy

 

[grimfang]

there are solutions... if you are willing to open your eyes and take a moment to think about somebody other than yourself.
Need some help finding where to start?

http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/homeless/library/index.cfm
http://www.worldhungeryear.org/ria/display_ria.asp?ria_ndx=70
http://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org:8080/top/CFTH/programs/job_training.html
http://www.fuusa.org/homeless_&_shelter_services.htm
http://www.toad.net/~aami/alighthouse.htm
http://www.bpl.org/electronic/shelters.htm
http://www.neshv.org/a_programs.html
http://4homeless.hypermart.net/hobos.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/grants-catalog-homelessness.html
http://www.nmha.org/homeless/affiliatehomelessprograms.cfm

by state:
Alabama: http://www.adeca.alabama.gov/content/csd/emerg_shelter/action_plan.aspx

Alaska: http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/cdbg/ESG.cfm
http://www.cssalaska.org/p_br_francis_kodiak.html

Arizona: http://www.stpaulsfay.org/sevenhills.html
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/adultPro/eligSp/info/homelessshelt.asp
http://www.ci.phoenix.az.us/GRANTNSD/cdbg98.html
http://www.azstarnet.com/nonprofit/tpch/services.htm

Arkansas: http://www.stpaulsfay.org/sevenhills.html
http://www.st-marks.com/outreach.htm

California: http://dhaweb.saccounty.net/Services/Homeless_Services/
http://www.trivalleyhaven.org/homelessservices.html
http://www.westsong.com/bahanapa/
http://www.yfa.org/homeless_RY_Srvcs.htm
http://www.self-sufficiency.org/programs.html
http://www.palmettohouse.org/services.htm
http://www.homelessness.org/faq.html
http://jdooley.hypermart.net/saa/homeless.html
http://centuryhousing.org/homelessveterans.htm
http://www.oaklandnet.com/government/hcd/homeless/shelters.html
http://www.beyondshelter.org/aaa_programs/demonstration_projects.shtml
http://www.ultimanet.com/~shltrpls/sop.html
http://www.sannet.gov/homeless-services/winteremer.shtml


Colorado: http://www.pparc.org/CS_HomeCent.shtml
http://www.state.co.us/oed/edc/ez_projects/_EZprojectList.cfm?zid=3

Conneticut: http://www.ihawestport.com/programs.htm

Delaware: http://www.delaware.gov/yahoo/Resident

Florida: http://www.miamibeachfl.gov/newcity/neighborhoods/homeless.asp
http://www.gcjfs.org/svc-housing.htm
http://www.goodwillcfl.org/people.asp
http://www.tfn.net/Homeless/services.htm

Georgia: http://www.homelessaid.com/2002/taskforce.html
http://www.therockatlanta.org/ResourceGuide/employment.htm

Hawaii: http://vlsh.org/partnersincare/pic/resources.html

Idaho: http://www.nicon.org/fatherhood/shelters.html

Illinois: http://www.illinoisbiz.biz/bus/gri/grants_comm.html
http://www.thenightministry.org/serve/help1.htm

Indiana: http://www.elkhartysb.org/Helping Hand.htm


Iowa: http://www.geocities.com/ar_razzaq_the_provider/ia/hs.html

Kansas: http://www.ricksplace.org/needHelp/supportPhoneNos.htm

Kentucky: http://12.154.113.34:82/continuu.htm

louisiana: http://brgov.com/dept/ocd/esgp.htm
http://www.jeffparish.net/index.cfm?DocID=1675
http://www.dol-louisiana.org/catholic.html

Maine: http://www.projectgracemaine.org/about/accomplish.shtml

Maryland: http://www.homelesseast.org/Shelters By State/shelters_MD.htm
http://www.salvationarmy-rochasny.org/EPS.html


Massachusettes: http://www.actioninc.org/shelter.html
http://www.fobh.org/beyond.htm
http://www.womenofmeans.org/Clearin...ction_Agencies/community_action_agencies.html
http://elnom.com/mahome/state.html

Michigan: http://www.stclair-isd.k12.mi.us/services/homelessstu.html
http://www.arborweb.com/cg/t0114.html

Minnesota; http://www.lssmn.org/areas/areas_brainerd.htm

Mississippi: http://www.mrh4.com/shelter_care.htm
http://www.catholiccharitiesjackson.org/emergency_assistance.htm
http://www.mda.state.ms.us/programs/comm_assist/comm_grants_loans.htm

Missouri: http://stlouis.missouri.org/5yearstrategy/app_c(homeless).html

Montana: http://www.imt.net/~dist7hrdc/housing.htm
http://www.dphhs.state.mt.us/servic...ss_services/homeless_services_district_12.htm

Nebraska: http://crd.neded.org/hsginv/02homeless.html

Nevada: http://www.uwaysn.org/FundedPrograms/BasicNeeds.htm

New Hampsire: http://www.scshelps.org/homeless.htm

New Jersey: http://www.ci.trenton.nj.us/hhsfamily.html
http://www.westchestergov.com/planning/housing/Housing.htm

New Mexico: http://www.hud.gov/local/nm/homeless/foodbanks.cfm

New York: http://www.safehorizon.org/page.php?page=shelter
http://www.otda.state.ny.us/default.htm

North Carolina: http://www.mcdowellmission.com/

North Dakota: http://www.hud.gov/local/nd/homeless/serviceorgs.cfm

Ohio: http://www.neoch.org/
http://www.cincinnatigoodwill.org/individuals/housing.html

Oklahoma: http://domino1.odoc.state.ok.us/newhome/cad.nsf/pages/HumanDevelopment
http://www.okrehab.org/searchfiles/financial-assistance-central.htm
http://wtw.doleta.gov/formula/99formula/ok.asp

Oregon: http://www.svdplanecounty.org/mainsite/emergency.html

Pennsylvania: http://www.caring4u.org/Hsd/Homeless.htm
http://www.uwsepa.org/members/labor_resources_orgs.html
http://www.dlcmcdc.org/Activities and Operational Informations.html
http://www.carnegielibrary.org/subject/socserv/homeless.html

Rhode Island: http://www.episcopalri.org/ec_grantees.cfm

South Dakota: http://www.yanktoncontact.org/homeless.html

south Carolina: http://www.brooklandbaptist.org/resourcedirectory.htm


Tennessee: http://www.homelesscoalition.org/about us-agencies.htm
http://www.korrnet.org/ooa/service/caccrisis.html



texas: http://charities.dallasnews.com/2002agencies.html
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/health/ms_homeless.htm

Utah: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/local/utah.html

Vermont: http://www.va.state.vt.us/index.htm

Virginia: http://www.stmarysrichmond.org/human.html
http://www.carpentersshelter.org/
http://www.a-span.org/programs.html

Washington: http://www.cityofseattle.net/humanservices/csd/survivalservices/shelter.htm
http://www.ndcrt.org/resources/women_shelters.html

Washington DC: http://www.innercity.org/columbiaheights/agencys/aemergency.html
http://www.downtowndc.org/DevInit/Homeless/legal.html

West Virginia: http://www.huntingtoncitymission.org/housing.html
http://www.pinnaclemall.com/unitedway/agency.htm

Wisconson: http://www.samilwaukee.org/whatwedo/family.html
http://www.danejobs.com/crs/tenant.htm

Wyoming: http://www.vcn.com/~wch/services.htm

Its not the entire solution, but at least its a start. Its a lot better than choosing to do nothing, and allowing the suffering to continue.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
A disheveled, chemically altered, physically dirt-encrusted creature wandering around in traffic wearing one shoe and loudly barking at each person who enters a building, demanding to know if they have change at the top of his lungs, is indeed human filth.
.

I see people coming onto this site, not really an expert, shouting at everybody, demanding attention....

Human filth is a state of mind, not a condition.

They may need a bath, they may be hostil, they may need to learn a new language, but that doesn't make filth.

Calling other people filth is the sure way to ensure the problem.

But anyway Your entiled to your oppionen no-matter how low I feel it is. I'm not into locking people up just because I feel they are in the lowest part of the "thinking" chain.

Have a very good day

/Yari

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson 1ST POST
Don't worry. I won't post further on this thread under any circumstances.

*sigh*

Originally posted by rmcrobertson 2ND POST
Good to know that all the liberal BS about Christ healing lepers, and that miserable, ACLU-inspired nonsense on the Statue of Liberty (she's French, you know--what can you expect?) about, "the wretched refuse of your teeming shores," has been done away with.

I searched this entire thread and yours is the first mention of liberal, and ACLU. Thanks for putting words in people's mouths
YET AGAIN.

Originally posted by Judo-kid
1. Seeing a intresting story on 60 mins about a lawyer that lost it all(wasnt his fault) was sleeping on the beach and trying to get it together and get a job. It amazed me how hard he tryed to get a shower and look desent so he would be able to get the most basic job. These type of storys remind me that these people are humans and alot of times are just victoms of surcomstances.

Most basic job? What happened to his law degree? He couldn't
even get a job at McDonald's with a law degree? That's odd ....
I have a friend that manages a Mickey Dee's and he's begging
for people. BUT .. we're still not talking about a man such as this,
unless the man was out on the street spitting on people, blocking
their pathways and demanding money. So many here are
quick to point the finger and call others heartless, because we're
won't stand for indecent treatment of ourselves or our families.

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Also if you go down town you can see teens/kids grandparents digging threw dumps and taking half eaten apples out of the trash because they just want something to eat. If you cant spair a dollar or dont have it on you then nothing much you can do. But if you just size them up and decide that because of your 90$ shoes you are better then them, Take another look in the mirror....

WOW, another oddity. I've never seen that. Not once. And I
work "downtown" in a large metropolitan area. I walk all over
the streets of downtown and only see intrusive beggars. Be
certain though, if I ever saw what you're describing, I'd give them
a hell of a lot more than just pocket change. Other FACTS:
I've never owned a $90 pair of shoes, and I don't size people up.
Washington suddenly doesn't sound like a nice place, what with
the cost of shoes, it's citizens sizing people up, and so many kids
and senior citizens needing to rifle through dumpsters. And now
people pointing the finger and accusing me of being a rich, vain
person... I'm more used to that from the likes of robertson.

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Ok here is another question what should we do about the older people who are almost homeless need medical supplies that have to eat Dog Food to survive. I find we ignore them some being veterans who have fought in our wars for us. (AKA forgotten heros)

At least where I live, there are multiple free hospitals and clinics.
Multiple shelters where people can go to get a hot meal, that's
made for human consumption. I'll give ANY veteran of war a ride
the VA office. Again ... Washington doesn't sound like a nice place
anymore.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Originally posted by Yari
I see people coming onto this site, not really an expert, shouting at everybody, demanding attention....

I don't see anyone shouting. I also don't see anyone demanding to be seen as an expert in anything.

Here's an alternative perspective that contains within it a very edifying insight into the author's attitude:

'Plague' of panhandlers requires love, not punishment

July 16, 2003

By Kathleen A. Rumpf, The Syracuse Post Standard

While I sympathize with Armory Square business owners and their patrons on the issue of panhandlers in Syracuse, it is a deeper empathy I feel for our brothers and sisters in the streets who from day to day struggle fordignity and a rightful place in our community.

Be they poor, homeless or hurting, they are as much a part of the fabric of our society as any of us. The proposed ordinance making it illegal to panhandle is not only frivolous and unconstitutional, it is mean-spirited at best.

I plead - no, beg - for all of us to reconsider our responses to panhandlers. It is our attitudes and prejudices that are the real problem, and our lack of relationship with those in need of our compassion and tolerance. Since when is it acceptable that we as a community decide to incarcerate people who make us uncomfortable?

I cannot denythere are days I become annoyed when approached by someone asking for assistance, sometimes demanding it. Annoyance could be considered a human response, but in this situation, is it humane?

I don't feel human when I turn away from someone in need. I feel pain and guilt for being less than humane in that moment, and pray that I might become more tolerant and loving. Any irritation I feel or malice I display originates from the brutal reality that we make little time in our busy and important lives to be bothered with society's refuse.

Criminalizing the poor dehumanizes them and us. To throw a beggar in prison conveys that the downtrodden are to be despised. We strip them of what little they possess, shackle their dignity, judge them unfit and "disappear" them from our line of vision. Rather than the solution, incarcerating marginalized citizens indicates our failure as a society to justly respond to the needs of the disadvantaged.

Jail never has been, nor can it be an appropriate remedy for this egregious inequity. Penal accommodation of the poor is blatant hypocrisy.

The drunken and distressed who roam our streets break my heart. Most have been through every social service program available, in and out of institutions and jails. Still, there they are in our faces, challenging us to take responsibility for our own fears and repugnance directed toward those we perceive as different from ourselves.

I lived and workedwith the homeless for 10 years in New York City, on the Bowery at the Catholic Worker. More often than not, when I felt fearful of someone in distress, it was because of my own issues. Just because we imagine someone is a threat does not make it so.

At the time I lived in New York - in the 1970s - the city admitted to 36,000 people living on the streets. By comparison, Syracuse's Common Council divulged at a special hearing on the subject two weeks ago that our current "plague" consists of at most 15 to 20 individuals.

On the one occasion I was assaulted by a street person, any real injury I suffered was due to the level of human despair I witnessed and the lack of resources available for those about whom I came to care deeply.

Like it or not, some of our brothers and sisters will never "succeed" in the narrower definition of the word. But that does not make them any less human or less a part of our community. As people of faith, we are asked to have compassion and tolerance for the vulnerable. What I have come to believe is that the answers lie within myself. The only solution is to search within one's self for the courage to face one's fears.

Most of us,including those who make us uncomfortable, are soliciting a kind word or gesture. Dorothy Day, co-founder of the Catholic Worker movement, stated it most succinctly when she said, "the only solution is love."

Now that we've read that, who can identify what's wrong with it?

Here's a hint:

On the one occasion I was assaulted by a street person, any real injury I suffered was due to the level of human despair I witnessed and the lack of resources available for those about whom I came to care deeply. [emphasis added]

When we are so blinded by our sense of collective societal guilt that we do not hold accountable a street person who physically attacks us, we are part of the problem -- a problem that leads to the societal decay I decry.

Recognition of reality is not a "lack of compassion." The problem with political correctness and the heightened sensitivities it creates -- sensitivities that prompt so many of us to become outraged when confronted with the "desert of the real" -- is that it demands we substitute what we wish was true for what is true.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Dear Kirk:

Apologies for posting. But compared to some of the the pernicious nonsense (life's guerrilla warfare! everybody homeless is a threat! hate them!) posted, I ain't feeling too awful...

As for the no comments about liberals and the ACLU---you are unwise, grasshopper, to challenge my reading skills. Here's "Ender," this thread, page 2, I believe:

"...in the early 80's the ACLU took the government to court to release many people who were mentally ill or institutionalized. They claimed they were being held against thier will and the government were holding them prisoners. The ACLU won the case and the government had to release them. Many of these patients had no one to release them to, so they were just released into the public. Since the government could no longer house these people, funding was then removed. Many people blame Reagan for being callous and not caring for these people, but really the ACLU is to blame..."

I was extremely pleased to see that the majority of folks on this thread are sensible, decently-spoken, and knowledgeable.

Incidentally, "Sharp Phil," I lived in Syracuse, 1991-1992, and not in the best part of town either. None of this stuff ever happened to me. My best buddy from grad school, lives on Fellowes Ave.? Nice part of town? About '97, the cops had to take a backhoe to one of his nice neighbors' back yards...seems the local teenage girls had been disappearing...

I suggest that anyone who wonders about connections among certain political philosophies would do well to visit Mr. Elmore's website, which among other things offers quotes from Robert E. Lee (!) as refutations of, "collectivism," in all its forms, and cites Ayn Rand (of course) as a political/moral/philosophical authority.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
As for the no comments about liberals and the ACLU---you are unwise, grasshopper, to challenge my reading skills. Here's "Ender," this thread, page 2, I believe:

My bad! My not so humble apologies, sir!

I don't see how I missed it .. I did a freaking scan! ... but oh well ..
still sorry for the comment, my mistake.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Kirk
Their needs? What, a drink, or crack fix? If they have a mental
problem then they need to go to a facility for treatment .. my tax
dollars are already there to help him. If they have a drug
problem, then they don't need one red cent from me, I have a job
and I EARN my money. There's nothing stopping them from doing
the same. Panhandling is good money, plain and simple. It's the
easy way out for those not wanting to actually earn a living. If
unemployment were at ZERO, then I might have a change of heart
but hell, I used to work at Mickey Dee's, we got free food, free
uniforms, and a check every two weeks. And last I heard ..
they're still hiring!

I don't owe them a damned thing, they need to get their asses up
and get a job! I'd rather give some money to the guy that has a
job, but can't make ends meet. Or the single parent who's check
just doesn't cover the expense of living, than the bum on the
street that just doesn't want to do anything except get high, and
loaf.

... you need to BE one of these people for a while. You probably never even worked in a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen. Well I have, and maybe if you did, your attitude would be more mature and not based on ignorant FEAR.

You have no idea the demographics of these people, I assurwe you. A HUGE persentage of the homeless are disabled veterans, for Chr*st's sake! Your supposed tax dollars taken from your cozy paycheck are wasted, but not on what you think. Why do you think there are so many charities out there if it's so easy to get treatment for illnesses or addictions, and there's plenty of jobs for people without specific skills or degrees.

Just tell them to eat cake ... :barf:

 

[7starmantis]

I haven't read the entire thread, but by reading the first post by Phil, I don't see how anyone else hasn't noticed this attempt at a flame war. To use words like all, everyone, is a little generalization I think, and I don't believe anyone has the right or authority to judge another human being, especially when its in such a broad generalizing statement. Living in Houston for several years as a paramedic, I've seen homeless people kill and maim others, and I've seen "normal" people kill and maim homeless people. To make a statement like Phil's you might as well say that a certain race is filth or manimals, its just as generalized.

mho,
7sm

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
The question I have is, given that we all base things on our own biases and opinions.... is that guy, who is wearing rags, who smells like a compost heap, beggin for a buck ...
...
We have no way of knowing what his story is, as we just look at him and judge.

:asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: