OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #41
Is this Motion Kenpo ideology?
Dead Space.....
- Thread starter Goldendragon7
- Start date
Is this Motion Kenpo ideology?
Oh yeah sure I do, but its adouble edged sword. I feel the hardstylists have a hard time comming out of the simplistic mentality they are originaly taught; where as many soft stylists are lost in the totality of what they are being taught. I've said this before and caught hell but I feel delayed sword should be taught as a block jab or jab jab (just like boxing or karate) and the kick should be added later as an insert or to stay on topic to fill in the dead space. Delayed sword to a beginner is so complex that I pitty the yellow belt that tries to use it in a fight. On the other hand it is the alpha and the omega of techs as far as I'm concerned, but its a big bite to chew.
Sean
Perhaps, as soon as someone explains that term, this mentality might fit.Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Is this Motion Kenpo ideology?
Sean
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
hard to disagree with much in the last few posts...including BroJo's "why, R., why?"...except with the crack about "motion kenpo ideology," which I assume was meant facetiously...if it wasn't, I'd tell you unequivocally that, "respect the level you're on," is fundamental to any teacher worth their uniodized salt.
R
Rainman
Guest
Plenty of points. Circles are not flat neither is the infinity sign. What do you think is more pointless opening a book and looking at the diagram or espousing your intellectual superiority? I cited my sources, so you see, there was a gross contradiction there with the assumption being circles are flat but the universal pattern is not. The Infinity sign is flat but the universal pattern is not. When movement is flat it is monodimensional. When this occurs people stop to change direction. This is, in part, where dead space lives. There are many contributing factors not to mention just natural progression through the art and the mechanical stage of learning.
Instructors very, some people are mechanical to the end, some never were. You have to look at muscle tension as well. So, too long and too hard for too long contribute to dead space because it forces you to stop especially when changing direction. Not all directions mind you just some and they commonly related to structure, alignment and targeting which has to do with your "angles".
More than one way to look at dead space- You really have to understand the student and what plan you are using to teach that individual. People who have dead space in their forms at 3rd black are just a paycheck to someone.
Your picture was food to me. I would think of food as a life source so slaughter the rabbit and mop up the gravy with the pancake. Oh no, you mean you actually have to do something to eat instead of just buy it at the store?!
I thought we had moved passed all this. I live in a service economy. I pay people that pay people to kill my food. Rabbits are a little gamey for me.
Sean
Sean
Brother John
Senior Master
I don't think so, it's just my ideology.Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Is this Motion Kenpo ideology?
I think that things like filling dead-space, grafting and the use of formulation should be preceded first by really ingraining the base technique to a high degree of competency. To incorporate these things is GREAT, but it's not so hot to be done before you've really digested all that the base has to offer. Not that you stop 'digesting' the base movement once you begin these things either, but if you aren't Very grounded in the base then the student begins to "not see the forest for the trees".
Your Brother
John
R
Rainman
Guest
Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I thought we had moved passed all this. I live in a service economy. I pay people that pay people to kill my food. Rabbits are a little gamey for me.
Sean
Where you live? People still have cows painted on the sides of their Peterbuilts parked on the lawn:rofl:
Brother John
Senior Master
Hey Sean
I see what you are saying by the 'double edged sword'. Infact I think we are saying the same thing, just with different words.
How very Kenpo of us.
Interesting to look at Delayed Sword as a 'jab' type tech.
I never really thought it was that complicated.
Why do you see it as such?
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
Hey Rainman: Glad you weren't too peeved about the pigs comment.
Listen, I personally think that you are using lots of words to say some simple concepts. I wasn't taking the time to really read ALL of your previous posts because of the twisty-tie nots you make with your words. I mean you know offense, and though perhaps my brother Robert was expressing some steam while he said it, he had a good point about your 'syntax'.
Try to say your main points without so many words. It will lead to less confusion I'd think.
For instance:
Do you see what I mean?
I don't mean to lecture...sorry. I do this myself sometimes.
Only passing on my own lessons.
Your Pedantic Brother
John
First of all let me state that I disagree with you about the waiting to teach the equation formula because that is what you need to actualy pull off a real fight on the street from the get go, and the basics and tactics in any given tech are what you need to draw from even at a beginning level.
Ok now for your question, Jab jab stay neutral is easier than block, settle, carfully pull back into a cat stance on the return motion of your first strike, kick, choose a target based on kicking results, chop , and cover out. One is usefull right away the other is usefull down the road. No big whoop.
Sean
At least we have lawns there Mr. Nevada.
Sean
R
Rainman
Guest
Okay name a simple concept I used too many words on. Then answer why you didn't look in book 4 and come up with something. The visual aids are a large part of the ideas. Without the beginning there is no need for the middle.
He expressed steam for not doing a simple task. Do you not see how weak that argument is? To me that is akin to people who don't study for a test and get angry when they fail.
Sorry but I also call em as I see em
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
I don't know about the geometry you learn, but circles ARE flat, if they'd had a volume, they'd be sferes. If you live in a 2D world, then an ellipse may be described as a flattened circle.
When movement is flat, it is two dimensional, not unidimensional. A straight shot is unidimensional, an arced shot is bidimensional (it follows a plane and not a straight line, unless you're watching the movement from the *edge* of the plane).
It is difficult to understand everybody in this thread if you keep jumping from a 2D description to a 3D world and back and reverse. It's not the same having 2 axis of reference as 3 axis, as in the circle example.
I think we can all agree in this part, uh?
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
I've reread my answer and it came out a little bit direct and somewhat rude. That was not my intention.
And Rainman, forgive me if it came as a direct response to you, it wasn't (except the last paragraph). It was a general response.
And Rainman, forgive me if it came as a direct response to you, it wasn't (except the last paragraph). It was a general response.
Just to add to Kenopomachine's post: (nice analogy by the way, line of motion, path of motion)
A line of motion that does not stay on the same plane is an Arc, i.e. a hooking punch.
A path of motion that does not stay in the same plane, becomes three dimensional, and follows the outside of the imaginary construct (universal pattern), e.g. the path of motion found in the first moves of Snaking Talon (at least the way I do it now), or any stike which follows an arcing path (think of your right arm starting from a thrusting inward block postion, then you anchor the elbow as the inward downward forearm blocks and uppercut, or strikes the radial nerve along the inside of the right arm in a "scooping" kind of motion.
Hard to convey in words, but easily understood since the joints of the body allow for rotational and hinged movements. More confused
-Michael
A line of motion that does not stay on the same plane is an Arc, i.e. a hooking punch.
A path of motion that does not stay in the same plane, becomes three dimensional, and follows the outside of the imaginary construct (universal pattern), e.g. the path of motion found in the first moves of Snaking Talon (at least the way I do it now), or any stike which follows an arcing path (think of your right arm starting from a thrusting inward block postion, then you anchor the elbow as the inward downward forearm blocks and uppercut, or strikes the radial nerve along the inside of the right arm in a "scooping" kind of motion.
Hard to convey in words, but easily understood since the joints of the body allow for rotational and hinged movements. More confused
-Michael
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Yeah, I agree: a lot of this lies in a reluctance to unpick the terminology, so that, "dimensional zones," "dimensions," "planes," and a few other things remain all smooshed together.
Another issue, of course, lies in the question of whose terminology we're willing to use: I'm using Mr. Parker's terms that I got through Larry Tatum, which seem pretty straightforward to me--as I assume other terminologies do to those employing them.
If we go back to page 1 of this thread, though, this started out as a question of dead space. I argued in terms of good teaching practices; others argued in terms of understanding kenpo, or perfected self-defense, or kenpo theory. It might also help for us to keep separating among those different approaches.
And last, there's always the question of how much language and theory one really needs. I absoutely agree that difficult matters need specialized language to make them easier to understand--question is, when are the theoretical languages necessary and when are they just goofy, if not deliberately mysterious?
Same thing happens in literary studies all the time...
Another issue, of course, lies in the question of whose terminology we're willing to use: I'm using Mr. Parker's terms that I got through Larry Tatum, which seem pretty straightforward to me--as I assume other terminologies do to those employing them.
If we go back to page 1 of this thread, though, this started out as a question of dead space. I argued in terms of good teaching practices; others argued in terms of understanding kenpo, or perfected self-defense, or kenpo theory. It might also help for us to keep separating among those different approaches.
And last, there's always the question of how much language and theory one really needs. I absoutely agree that difficult matters need specialized language to make them easier to understand--question is, when are the theoretical languages necessary and when are they just goofy, if not deliberately mysterious?
Same thing happens in literary studies all the time...
... and you know it gets tough to separate the wheat from the chaff.
You and I do share the same terminology due to our respective lineages. The "dead space" I try to fill, is primarily the void located between my two ears.
-Michael:asian:
You and I do share the same terminology due to our respective lineages. The "dead space" I try to fill, is primarily the void located between my two ears.
-Michael:asian:
Brother John
Senior Master
Rainman-
Please, don't get'm up in a bunch over this.
As I said, I didn't mean you any offense, and if it seems I was coming down hard on you for something, bear in mind... as I said, I do it too.
Who says I didn't look in book 4? I didn't say I don't understand what you are saying. I do.
I disagree with what it appears you think "dead-space" is... but that's another matter. I could be wrong.
I don't need to defend Robert. Personally I feel he's a good person who's passionate about his art...but tends to 'express steam' a little too often. Gets in the way of better communication. If I defended him each time he 'expressed steam' yet still had a good point.... I'd be busy. He's a passionate, intelligent, opinionated... passive-aggressive Kenpoist.
Kinda reminds me of me.
Kinda...
:asian:
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
Originally posted by Michael Billings
The "dead space" I try to fill, is primarily the void located between my two ears.
Spacle.
Your Bro.
John
