'dancing on your grave'

[Doc]

Doc, ... I am still trying to triage the Effective Kenpo from the Affected Kenpo and building effective responses from natural reaction has helped me recognise the difference between complex and complicated Kenpo,...

That is one really great statement. The recognition that there is a difference between the two is a huge thing. It is why some see the 'complex' as simple, while they dismiss the 'complicated' as unnecessary.

 

[kenpoworks]

That is one really great statement. The recognition that there is a difference between the two is a huge thing. It is why some see the 'complex' as simple, while they dismiss the 'complicated' as unnecessary.

:asian::asian::asian:

 

[Flying Crane]

Very cool thoughts all way around. FC, your right... It is amazing what can be culled from the dross when you are inspired. On the other hand you will then run into a certain Mad Kenpo Scientist, who will send you around the bend and off in new directions. And man! That can be confusing, frustrating, and just plain fun.

I went through my first iteration like the one you have gone through, about 13 years ago. Anjd even after all this time, Saintly Uncle Dan (that would be me) is dancing along behind and often to the side of the Mad Kenpo Scientist.
%-}

FC, it's is too bad that you and I are probably on different ends of the continent... Would be fun to get together, compare notes and see where we are headed.
:ultracool

I am in San Francisco, so looks like we are a ways apart, but it's interesting to hear that others have had similar thoughts and made the effort to do something about it. If you ever wander into my neck of the woods, let me know.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

guys, i just wanted to say thanks.

when i started this thread i was expecting maybe a couple of tepid answers. i'm sitting here taking notes.

thanks so much for such an interesting and valuable response.

 

[Goldendragon7]

I agree.

WARNING: POSSIBLE OFFENSIVE RESPONSE. DO NOT READ IF OVERLY SENSITIVE OR EASILY OFFENDED

For the record when the commercial system was initially created, although it was based on simple self defense courses like some now taught on video, it was somewhat more sophisticated and tended to present many more martial options to the students.

Later as the system was intentionally fleshed out to present more and more material as students demanded, the 'cool and 'wow' factor took hold in the selling of the product. 'Kenpo-karate' is more of a product that allows students, (and teachers) to make of it what they will. This is the greatest sells asset it has. Under these 'tailoring' guidelines, no one is ever wrong.

However, instead of perfecting material, it simply adds more to keep practitioners 'interested' and not allow, initially, it’s American Practitioners the chance to get bored. (And move on to yoga, Taiji, handball or something)

All real martial artists know the actual knowledge is in perfecting and understanding the basics. Rather than 'boring' students, it simply gives them a new toy to play with and, unfortunately gives them belts for the process, not the skill or the knowledge. 'Kenpo-Karate' initially 'grades on the curve,' and when you get to the higher end, 'social promotions' kick in followed by 'self promotions.'

To cover this lack of 'skill', (some say over-skill) the philosophy became, "Well if the first move doesn't work, just move on to the second, etc." This is what we call in our teaching, an "Assumption of Failure." Rather than perfecting what you have to assure it's functionality, just move on to something else. The problem with this "Assumption of Failure" is obvious.

Without real skill and understanding, it is easy for a student to be lured into the 'flash,' and 'wow' factor, with no regard for practicality, moral judgment, common sense, or adherence to prevailing laws of jurisdiction. The seducement of the dark side of the force is strong. Most are just ordinary people like you and I, who are suddenly given this 'power.' Demonstrated in the classroom, they learn to rip out eyeballs, smash testacies, and stomp the living crap out someone who would dare put his hand on our shoulder. One must admit, it can be very empowering, 'Luke."

A portion of the techniques are actually based on women's self defense courses taught at private clubs, health spas, universities and colleges across the country. Put in that context, these types of actions are acceptable and 'normal.' In a women's self defense course, the assumption is the attacker is bigger, male, and great bodily harm, and/or sexual assault are the attackers intent. What ever your mom, sister, wife, or girlfriend might do to the attacker would be too good for him, so there is a social acceptance of the philosophy.

However, when that is translated to a systemized martial art form dominated by men, and children, it is wholly out of context. Yet its popular and empowering method is so alluring, rational people loose a sense of why they are studying in the first place. Self-defense is fine but, not the maiming, crippling, and possible death of someone for throwing a punch or putting a hand on your shoulder.

I was around, heard, and watched the creation of the 'excuses' for the extreme mayhem. "Over-skill, "just in case," and "lessons of motion" are only excuses to cover the systems lack of addressing proper basics, and effective and moral execution of its techniques. Only in Kenpo-Karate is higher skill and knowledge represented by more techniques, more mayhem, and more destruction of an attacker. Nevertheless, this is actually understandable. The real knowledge for a different more traditional approach is not present in the system, but can probably be found in some of its instructors, as intended.

Kenpo Karate in the right hands is not the problem. It is what it is, and can function at a high level when taught properly. The problem is the lack of quality teachers. The system breeds and feeds on itself and each generation are, in general, worse than the previous with less and less real martial experience and knowledge. It is the instructors responsibility to put things in context, and impart a sense of moral 'right and wrong' in their teaching. Sadly, most are just teaching what they were taught, badly. Any excuse for all the mayhem, and stomping, and gouging is just that. An excuse to teach all that they know.

Couple that with the need to teach on a level to sustain the 'business' and there may be a recipe there for success, but only in business, not in self defense. And even those not in business are restrained by the vehicle itself and its lack of depth of information.

hmmmmmmmmm

geeze....... I had to go get a sandwich and drink to finish this...... I think you need to get a job telemarketing or something..... Lol

 

[Doc]

hmmmmmmmmm

geeze....... I had to go get a sandwich and drink to finish this...... I think you need to get a job telemarketing or something..... Lol

NOW he has something to say!

 

[Sigung86]

NOW he has something to say!

But... He prob'ly didn't put Mayo on the baloney sandwich!