Curious question..ITF without Sine Wave??

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by punisher73, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I just recently got done reading a book about TKD, and was very impressed with it's history and combat effectiveness by the ROK in Vietnam.

    My question is, are there any ITF groups that perform Gen. Choi's version of TKD, but don't utilize the "sine wave" aspect?

    Are there different organizations that broke away from the ITF that use the same material, but without the sine wave?
     
  2. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Senior Master

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    No.

    Yes.

    There are also ITF split-offs that use sine wave (USTF, GTF, U-ITF, etc.).

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  3. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    What groups use the ITF material, but don't use sine wave?

    Are there varying levels of "sine wave"? I know that sounds odd, but most of the videos I have seen of the sine wave it was very "bouncy" is there a subtler version that still uses the concept but more pronounced?

    I know it's a touchy subject, not trolling just curious about it.
     
  4. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I assume you mean the forms. If so, the majority of the independent TKD orgs and individual schools in the US use the Chang Hon forms but do not practice sine wave. Look at ATA offshoots like Chong Sil, ITA, and Taekwondo America. (The ITA changed up a few of the forms however.) Jhoon Rhee schools used to use the Chang Hon forms, but he later came up with his own creations. Now in practice, schools affiliated with him generally practice both sets - some do the Jhoon Rhee forms up to black belt and then they learn Chang Hon after chodan.
     
  5. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Senior Master

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    Dancingalone already touched on this, but I'd say there are probably more people who practice Gen. Choi's patterns without sine wave than there are who practice them with sine wave. Of course, within this group of non-sine-wavers you have a variety of practices. You get people who are basically doing Shotokan techniques but performing the Chang Hun tuls, you have people who are using a degree of "knee spring" when performing techniques but don't refer to it as sine wave, you have people who are between those two points, etc.

    Grand Master Kim, Yong Soo (he was in the Army II Corp in 1960, attended the first ITF Instructors course in Seoul in 1968 and is featured priminantly in Gen. Choi's 1972 textbook and its following editions; he's the gentleman using his punch to extinguish a candle in one picture) has pointed out that Gen. Choi was already teaching sine wave in the late 1960s, but that many of the instructors he trained were hesitant to change because they were used to the more karate-esque focus on keeping the head level that they were used to from their Kwan training.

    Yes, there are different levels of sine wave. IMHO, much of what you see on youtube is not really all that great of an example of sine wave. It's tournament "performances" and, for whatever reason, you have judges scoring people higher the more "bounce" they have. It's like people kicking above their head when the technique actually should be directed to the middle section. It gets scored higher even though people know it's incorrect. Or should know, anyway.

    Sine wave is, technically, a bend in the knee of about 30 degrees. If you're interested in how much of a bend that is try this exercise: Straighten your leg, then bend it so your lower and upper leg form a right angle (90 degrees); now undo half of that bend (45 degrees); now undo that bend by almost half. Not much of a bend in the knee is it? And yet I have seen people perform To-San where their shin is almost parallel to the floor as they wind up for the punch on movements 2, 4, 12 and 14.

    There are a few exceptions where you bend your knee greater than 30 degrees, such as when performing a circular block, but those are exceptions.

    Sine wave should be a noticable, but subtle, movement. You can definitely reach a point where it's "too much of a good thing." Think more of Jack Dempsey's "falling step" than jumping up and down on a trampoline. It's a bit like watching a wave come in to shore.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  6. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Which book is this?
     
  7. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    A killing art by Alex Gillis123
     

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