Cross legs

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you cross legs in front of your opponent, your opponent can sweep you.

    [​IMG]

    But when you cross your legs, if you move your foot over your other leg knee, your opponent cannot sweep you.

    [​IMG]

    Is this guideline important, or not important to you? Your thought?
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The second one leaves you a long time on one leg. While it limits sweeps, it compromises the ability to respond to structure changes (them pulling, for instance). If their structure is affected before you start the cross-over, it's pretty hard to sweep.
     
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  3. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    What about back takes?
     
  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Depends.

    In the first video no one is close enough to sweep. In the second video Yellow should be off balancing White with the step to make countering more difficult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It all depends on context. Neither of your statements hold true all of the time.

    Be aware of how and when and why you cross your legs, because you may be vulnerable. But if there is a good purpose for it, if you will accomplish something with it and you can do it safely, that risk may be minimal and it may be worth it.
     
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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    To avoid back take, one should control both of his opponent's arms. In that clip, he may not have controlled his opponent's both arm 100%.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  7. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Control both arms with your back towards them?

    Also what about their legs? Someone who knows what they’re doing will hook or wrap their legs around you. This is why Judo players don’t do those type of throws when they compete in Bjj tournaments.
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If your left hand hold on your opponent's right wrist, your right hand hold on his left wrist. When you turn, you tuck his left arm under his own right arm, use his right arm to pin his own left arm, his hands cannot reach you.

    arm-tucking-1

    Your opponent's leg mat wrap around your upper leg (or ankle). But if you have good control on his arms, only his leg won't be effective on you.

    Some Judo guys may not intend to control his opponent's arms 100% before their throw.

    There is a contradiction in the throwing art.

    1. One should control both of his opponent's arms during the throw.
    2. One should use free hand to counter his opponent's throw.

    The issue is if 1 is true then 2 is false. Also if 2 is true then 1 is false.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  9. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Except you let go of the left hand and pinched it between you and your opponent’s torso. You’re not actually throwing them in that gif. Off balanced? Sure, but that wasn’t the set up or the throw you showed in the OP. Is there an example of you doing that OP throw where both hands are controlled?
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I don't have clip for that at this moment.

    After you have guided your opponent's left arm under his right arm, you release your right hand, grab on his right elbow, turn, and apply your shoulder throw. When you bend over, your opponent's left arm will be pinned by his right arm, his chest, and your back. If your opponent can't pull his left arm out, he can use left arm to pull you back.

    This is why the "outer bowing" is more effective. your opponent's free arm cannot reach you.

    Chang-outer-bow
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I don't think it's that simple when it comes to crossing legs. The videos are out of context.

    1st video: She's not crossing her legs. Take a closer look. The camera angle only makes it look like she's crossing her legs. The type of movement that she's doing would have to be done outside of the range of sweeps.

    2nd video:The technique being use is done in demonstrates how to do a throw. If i was coaching White. I would tell him to use his left leg to disrupt Yellow's ability to plant by using the left leg to kick yellow's foot out so that this stance is too wide for the throw.

    I would also yell at White for breaking my #1 rule for stances. Never put both feet/legs in danger. A bladed stance would have prevented that. Both solutions are viable, I would also have yelled at white for standing so high in his stance. A lower stance would have made that particular throw more difficult.

    Overall I'm more likely to sweep someone in that 2nd video than someone who is circling me out of range.

    As for a the videos. I think some better videos could have been used
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you are outside of your opponent's kicking range, you can cross your legs any way that you want to.

    I only talk about inside the kicking range.
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Full video. Her legs do not cross
     
  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The only time I would walk like this is when I'm out of range. It's a difficult position to defend from.. Here's a video of someone using the walk. If I were to use this walk then I would use it in that context. Boxer's use something similar where they circle around their opponent but they use a forward facing circle

    This is the only practical use that I can think of where the movement is simply to get an advantageous angle without the opponent locking in on you. Notice they only do this type of circling out of striking range. Holding the arm out would be similar to the Long Guard




    I believe the walk is the same concept of this and was never meant to be something that you do in striking range. It was a way to easily keep your opponent from locking in on you.
     
  15. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Okay, now we’re entering fantasy land. No one is going to come at you like that with their arm straight in the air begging for you to do what they want. That just smacks of those Aikido demos where people get thrown with a flick of the wrist. Frankly I was also willing to play along with that double arm control you showed earlier, but that’s suspect as well. If you honestly think someone is going to stand there while you grab both their wrists, or come at you with their arm straight in air, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.
     
  16. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Same circling concept here also done out of range. Also prevents opponent from locking on.


    There are times where I would cross step in front of the opponent. The times that I have done it, where I was in striking kicking range, were situations where the opponent is least likely able to kick and sweep and the cross stance usually occurs while I'm attacking. I'm usually doing some other attack which draws your attention to my attack and not my footwork. Before I left the school, I was working on a cross stance to use as a way to defend against a single leg takedown. I believe that there's a way to that this can be done, the only thing I'm not certain of is if it will break the persons arm when I do it.
     
  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    In a fight they won't come at you like that, but they will use the same concept as I have shown in other videos. The concept is CIRCLING. How you do actually go about doing it can vary as there are may ways to circle your opponent.

    I think Wang just needs a video that better represents what he means by crossing legs in front of opponents while in striking range. I would trust Wang enough for him to teach me. Meaning if he showed me something I wouldn't be the student who "never believes what the teacher is teaching"

    I just think the video is not a good example of what he's trying to get at. Being in a Covid-19 environment in the US makes it really difficult to find a partner. To demo things. The only people I can demo with is my son and my wife. There is a big size difference and that's the first thing people will point out if I demo a valid technique using them as a sparring partner. Sometimes you just have to ask for video that better shows what is being referred to.
     
  18. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    I have no issue with the first video in the OP, it's this gif that is suspect;

    [​IMG]

    I have literally never seen that pulled off under resistance, even in Olympic Judo which contains the best jacket throwers in the world. Also it honestly looks like Uke is purposely throwing himself.
     
  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    It happens in the wrestling grip fight all the time.

    wrestleing-grip-fight
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  20. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    That's two grapplers grip fighting. In your clip you had a guy in a boxing guard and tori grabbed both his wrists.

    [​IMG]123
     

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