Complaints about Moderation of Shaolin Do? Thread.

[Cthulhu]

http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/chung/chung.htm
http://www.rickross.com/groups/chung.html
http://anyboard.net/rec/sports/Royal_Dragons_Dungeon/posts/244.html
http://anyboard.net/rec/sports/Royal_Dragons_Dungeon/posts/243.html
http://www.ustreas.gov/irs/ci/articles/dockim99.htm
http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/cmd-tax.html

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/chung/chung.htm
http://www.rickross.com/groups/chung.html
http://anyboard.net/rec/sports/Royal_Dragons_Dungeon/posts/244.html
http://anyboard.net/rec/sports/Royal_Dragons_Dungeon/posts/243.html
http://www.ustreas.gov/irs/ci/articles/dockim99.htm
http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/cmd-tax.html

Of all listed, only 2 pages even use the word "cult". The 2nd
one refers to the first, via the cult awareness network. The
others simply state money and/or tax fraud. If tax fraud beget
a cult, then why is Willie Nelson not locked up for cultish activity?

And just because it's discussed on a message board .. does NOT
make it true.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by arnisador
I certainly felt that the comments about the Shaolin-Do founder's physical appearance were inappropriate, and that their removal was very appropriate. For those who disagree with moderation that removes pejorative comments about disabled individuals, there is always rec.martial arts.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

There's a huuuuge line between overbearance, Barney the
dinosaur martial arts discussion only, and rec.martial.arts' "pejorative comments".
It's called humor, and I resent your name calling. Being hairy is
NOT a disability, so let's call it what it is please? If being
overweight is something that's so easily remedied, being hairy
is remedied even easier, so that argument doesn't fly. You're
saying since fat is correctable, it's okay to poke fun at fat people.
But it's not okay to make a joke at the expense of someone really
hairy, even though he can shave.

I have 2 points to make. One is the lack of consistancy, and the
other is where does your political correctness end? Shall you
complain if someone says "Mailman" instead of "Mail Deliverer"?
Or Stewardess instead of Flight Attendant?

You may accuse me of being facetious, but whitey has been
deemed, by you, as an intolerable word, regardless
of context. Where do you draw the line?

You turn a deaf ear, or put a little PM warning about the use of
the word retarded, which truely IS a disability, unlike being hairy.
But making a joke at the expense of a person, who more than
likely isn't said grandmaster anyways, dead over a 100 years, is
just flat out intolerable? I don't get it.

 

[Michael Billings]

Treat others as you want to be treated ... in the context of a civilized society. We do not have to be a chest beating, harisuit, testostarone driven society on MartialTalk. I try not to say anything I would not say to someone else, in front of an audience. The "in front of an audience" is important. That is what a forum is generally. It is definitly what MartialTalk is. I never know when I will end up at a camp or seminar with other posters, and as such, what do I want my relationship with them to be.

Now here is an interesting note, often we admire people with strong values, whether we agree with them or not. There is a difference between this and just not having the social skills to know how to disagree without being sarcastic, demeaning, or insulting. It takes a little more effort, especially since I can be just as sarcastic as anyone (yes, I just edited myself.)

I have a lot more to say on this issue, but don't want to be redundant or boring.

1. Generally MartialTalk moderators do a good job.

2. Some people just like to argue (ok if they actually know how to allow for disagreement and don't get personal)

3. Some people are a#$holes and are not going to interact with some people in any way but the way they do. Who are they making look bad ... themselves. None-the-less, you have to interceed.

Remember, if you cannot say it in person, in front of an audience, and deal with the verbal or physical consequences, DON'T SAY IT!!!!!! The consequences may show up on your front door someday, and it would not be pretty. If you have enough of an ego to think you can deal with any possible consequences, then you are probably not mature enough to be on any Board that I want to visit.

Talk the talk, walk the walk, but nobody likes a bully, and there are way more of us than you. That is why I appreciate the moderation. Consistancy, well, keep working on it. It takes a lot of hours to read every string and I don't even pretend to try. My hats off to those who can.

-Michael

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
" makes me wonder if MartialTalk is so widely known as to reach the afterlife? Do they have Net Access in Valhalla?

Yes they do and fortunately with that much extra time on thier hands they don't mind their 28.8K modem

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
You're saying since fat is correctable, it's okay to poke fun at fat people.

I don't believe that that's what I've said. Indeed, obesity is clearly a disability, which may or may not be correctable in an individual case.

I would also disagree with you in that I feel that hirsutism as severe as what is in the picture does constitute a disability.

You turn a deaf ear

I don't believe that this is correct. Certainly, however, I'm fallible. I resent the implication that failures in consistency on my part are better explained by malfeasance and intentional selectivity than by incompetence and time pressures leading to a failure on my part to hold to MartialTalk's agreed-upon standards.

When I'm at work I watch my language more than when I'm, say, working out with my long-time friends. It's situational. This situation requires a certain level of decorum too. We have set standards we feel are appropriate, beneficial, and in keeping with our vision for MartialTalk. Someone else might have made a different decision.

Feedback on the standards is welcome. It's less clear to me that the present discussion is beneficial.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

arnisador is actually more laid back than me. He's just more 'professional' in his approach to running this place.

We strive to consistancy, but whats consistant Oct 2001 may not be consistant Jan 2003. As we go, we develop. As we develop, we relax certain rules, strengthen others. Moderation is an evolutionary process, and we will make mistakes.

The fact that we are not infested with trolls and spam is noticed and commented upon often by many individuals. We are not so strict as some boards, nor as lax as others. We try to find a medium.

We always want feedback. We've grown from it. We will however not always do what is suggested.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

When I first found out about these kinds of forums, it was E-budo that I was introduced to. I went there, posted occasionally, actually got to talk with some folks I consider semi-celebrities, had a good time, made some really good friends (several of whom I met in Tokyo and who I continue to maintain contact with regardless of the distance involved), learned a few things too.

I then learned about Kung Fu Online. Went there, posted occasionally, got tired of constant, endless, harrassing threads designed to instigate "X is better than Z" flame wars between zit-faced teens hiding behind their PCs... I still go over there once in a blue moon, for entertainment moreso than information.

Then I learned about CyberKwoon. Cool site, cool site moderator, good content, boring forums. Probably because the membership is WAY lower than other sites. Had two articles published there, and I am forever in Fab's debt.

Then a buddy of mine (nbcdecon) told me about MT. The first time I came here, I was impressed only by the quantity of MMA fanatics I saw. Didn't come back for months. When I did come back, I was impressed by the open attitude, the lack of flame wars and trolls, and the real sense of community and fellowship that I was looking for. There have been some tiffs, but for the most part life here has been swell...

I think Shaolin-Do, along with a number of other schools (Temple Kung Fu, Oom Yung Doe, and a few others spring to mind) are beneath contempt. I wish the Horror Stories forum here on MT was more active with reports of such low quality frauds so that some of the "younger" members could have the info ahead of time and avoid falling into such traps. But on the other hand, I think it speaks volumes that that particular forum is as inactive as it is... Folks here seem more concerned with positiive learning rather than the darker side of web forum posting...

SD sucks. Period. They are a fraudulent group with questionable business practices and a lineage that is about as fake as it can get (though there are schools and teacher who are much worse). I just don't think anybody had to get "personal" about it, making fun of poorly done photos of alleged instructors. Whether the photo of the hairy guy is their grandmaster or not, whether the guy is dead or not, makes little difference as to the appropriateness of comments aimed in their direction.

 

[white belt]

Not good. I looked at Shaolin Do's site and the menu of forms. It looks "familiar" to me as an Ex-CMQer. Same tangled web.

The flaw I see, if I may be so bold, is that someone funned on the original Master's hair/skin deformity? The hoodwinked followers that are in denial were given ammo., by that very action, to spank those involved with making the forum possible. Now, WHY give anybody that opportunity if you feel they are providing a disservice to the Martial Arts community? That somehow doesn't seem analogous to the smart strategy a Martial Artist should practice by leaving such a window of opportunity to something untrustworthy. Present facts and leave it at that. I know I can be rather aggravating with my left field humor and perspective, but I give facts about CMQ and don't feel it helps give a trustworthy view, to their potential dangers, by slamming a CMQ instructors physical shortcomings. It might lead an outsider, who uses this forum to size up schools, to disregard my comments altogether and then waste months, years, dollars. That's not what I want to happen! I crack on DKI no touch KO stuff and HKD psychic conversations because THOSE THINGS ARE TOO OBVIOUS when "outed". The CMQ, Shaolin Do, Yellow Bamboo guys are more subtle and the public needs intelligent facts or we are putting money into those "schools" doors. Slamming deformities slams the speakers credibility with strangers who may be goodhearted easy prey for these places.

CMQ? Cult. Spent over 3 years. When the forum went down a while back, I considered it was my fault. I did not put it past one of the CMQers to somehow crash the forum because of my revealing nature. Yes, I am serious. The word needs to be spread about such places. If I were to use an ethnic slur to describe the leader, how credible would I seem to a stranger?

white belt

p.s.
I appreciate being allowed to share and learn here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Naw, wasn't your fault. We can't say more than we have for legal reasons.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by arnisador
Feedback on the standards is welcome. It's less clear to me that the present discussion is beneficial.

I'm glad you look at it that way. :asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

My sentiments exactly ... and why I don't go to other Forums, they just end up pissing me off.

-Michael
KenpoTexas.com