Christianity VERSUS Buddhism!!

[Sapper6]

Ok, tell me how you know that Jesus Christ was in fact God's Son? As he claimed to be as you say?
If you reply with the answer that you believe it to be so through your faith! Tell me why you believe that particular aspect and not interprate it differently? Tell me what tells you inside that it is true? please, thats if you can?

"But He unllike anyone before or since, was sent by God to be the savior of mankind" How do I know that Muhammad was not correct?

"He promises su something better later" Why later? Why not now? Why do I have to wait for salvation? Why can I not live in the now? How do I truely really know that this world is simply just a test?
Can you tell me where the roots of your 'faith' come from?
Please please please, do not take offence! My kindest regards
C.h

you cannot ask someone to prove something that is based on faith, it's impossible. they believe it because, they believe it. let's turn the tables here:

do you love your parents?

if so, prove it.

you see what kind of feeling this type of question causes? your instinct is to just say, "Because that's the way it is". you cannot expect anything more, if you do, you'll be frustrated with disappointment.

i certainly hope this doesnt turn into a christian beliefs bashing. i get the hint, not only from your post, that it's starting to make that turn. let's not take it there. if there are people that wish for more insight into religious beliefs, a martial arts forum is probably low on the list of places to look. you're going to end up asking the wrong person about why they believe what they believe. they are not going to offer the answer that you prefer or understand. questions will fly and people are bound to be offended.


@ ave_turuta

i'm sorry that you've experienced an ugly side to christianity. obviously these people do not represent the religion in it's best interest. hypocrisy is everywhere, not limited by denomination. i apologize for your experience. i am a christian by faith and i was never raised to feel the way you've described. i hope that life finds you well. best wishes.

 

[Tgace]

How about Islam Vs. Buddhism? Oh I forgot, its not PC to bash on Islam.

*Tongue in cheek, but see my point?*

 

[Corporal Hicks]

you cannot ask someone to prove something that is based on faith, it's impossible. they believe it because, they believe it. let's turn the tables here:

do you love your parents?

if so, prove it.

you see what kind of feeling this type of question causes? your instinct is to just say, "Because that's the way it is". you cannot expect anything more, if you do, you'll be frustrated with disappointment.

i certainly hope this doesnt turn into a christian beliefs bashing. i get the hint, not only from your post, that it's starting to make that turn. let's not take it there. if there are people that wish for more insight into religious beliefs, a martial arts forum is probably low on the list of places to look. you're going to end up asking the wrong person about why they believe what they believe. they are not going to offer the answer that you prefer or understand. questions will fly and people are bound to be offended.

.

My apologies and point taken, however is it not reasonable to ask those questions?
You ask me if I love my parents? Well firstly I would say that I love my parents through experience, how do I know that I love, I dont, but tell me first what love is? You ask me what love is, I could say that love is merely the concept that I have been brought up to believe in, just as faith may be a concept within itself. Maybe if one wished to do so they could banish the idea of 'love' from their life?! I'm not bashing here, but I dont understand, why people would put their belief into something that they could have possibly never seen, never felt or if they have, simply do realise that what they feel and experience or whatever is open to their own interpretation? However I can question my love for my parents through my actions? Maybe love, or faith or any emotion is simply a part of our genetic makeup, a label to a chemical reaction? This is reductionism, this is occams razor! Fortunately I also appreciate your previous point, and that reductionism too has its weaknesses, that fact sometimes, things can be reduced, too much!

This is a philosphical part of a Martial Arts forum, I do not see why I should not post such questions, if the moderators deem it unecessary or if it gets out of hand then by all means they should close the thread.
Do you not like the thread simply because it questions your belief? I hope that people have the capability to response in a curtious manner.
Tell me why you think this thread is a threat? Yet others will openly challenge and pick my belief in Buddhism to bits and even disregard my feelings and opinions but when I comes to theirs they back behind a wall?
I would say that from being younger, Christianity was drilled into me, just like its being 'installed' into SOME young people today, the only thing I didnt get was answers, not philosphical answers, just answers. The only response I got, was, "that is because the way it is" and they told me that "when you experience something great and powerful, it will be God almighty, who has come to you through Jesus Christ and opened the door to eternal life!". Tell me why I should not question that it should be a Christian God that I am experiencing? Tell me why I should interpretate it that way?
Why thing that puzzled me, was why?
Not just why in the sense of the world around me is bought by a Christian God or any god?
But why are we asking the why question in the first place? Do you get that?
Why as why in the first place?
Regards

 

[Corporal Hicks]

How about Islam Vs. Buddhism? Oh I forgot, its not PC to bash on Islam.

*Tongue in cheek, but see my point?*

Ha, its not PC to bash (no wait, challenge, thats the word) anything these days! In fact saying that I've probably violated section 7 paragraph 4 of the Political correctness index, therefore resulting in a long term sentence of promoting racial hatred under the degree of formally presenting an statement that some would take offence to!!!
Yeah................anyway
Throw some questions about Buddhism, the table works either way!

 

[Sapper6]

your questions certainly don't offend me. i understand faith, as it applies to me anyhow, i just wouldn't do it any justice in explaining it, that's all. don't get me wrong, there is not a single thing wrong with this thread or where it exists. i just hope you get the answers to your questions, to your liking, although my better judgment tells me otherwise. it's a great topic! but like someone had earlier stated, i think it's going to be hard to compare the two. christianity is truly a religion of faith-based beliefs. i can imagine each and every follower of Jesus Christ can cite endless situations they felt their faith has helped them get through a tough time. to a non-believer, it may not be so clear. there's always intellectual rationale that could explain such from a non-believer's POV. to understand christianity, you must first understand the concept of faith. here's a better example:

most of us all have a family physician right? at one time, you never knew this person personally. i knew him only as Dr. Smith. you know he must know what he's talking about prfessionally because he has a paper diploma from med school hanging on his wall, he must be right? but you haven't the slightest idea what his med school was like, or how it was run, his grades, did he pay attention during a certain block of instruction, did he barely slide by acedemically or did he achieve. the mere fact that he has that diploma is proof enough for most people. you know nothing of this person, yet you have the strongest faith in him that when you go to see him, he'll be able to help you medically, he will make you feel better. you have utmost faith in him that he will diagnose your problem in a manner that won't have an adverse affect on your health. you see him for a chest cold, he diagnoses you with bronchitis, but how do you know it isn't lung cancer? you believe in his diagnosis right? FYI, recent studies suggest that most cancers are misdiagnosed in it's early stages as something less-severe, mainly because their symptoms are relative to something more minor. i imagine this analogy won't due this discussion any justice, but i certainly hope that it helped, even just a little.

i'm not threatened even the slightest by the topic or questions posed in this thread. my beliefs run deeper than that. i just hope the same for others, even yourself when others question your beliefs, and you just can't find the right words to express yourself.

at some point, i hope that we all are given the chance to have our questions answered. i have many myself, many that the bible or any pastor of the christian faith just can't answer. i hope that one day i get the chance, just like yourself, to have these things explained to me.

no two religions are RIGHT ON about anything. they will contradict each other endlessly. it's up to human beings to decide what gives them the best answer, what makes most sense to THEM. i find it hilarious that atheists can say they have no religion, but even having no religion is a religion in itself. it's the ideals you believe in that make this true.

all i'm saying is that if you ask the "wrong" person about a religious belief, they are going to give you only their personal interpretation of such. it may never do the over-all belief justice. all you get is that person's perspective.

i've seen instances where two southern baptist churches within 50 miles of each other had differing ideas on certain text of the bible. if this can be the case, how can we expect that 30 million followers of the christian faith will agree and say the same thing either? we just cannot.

in time, i hope to know. until then, hakuna matata... :idunno:

 

[ave_turuta]

here's a better example:

most of us all have a family physician right? at one time, you never knew this person personally. i knew him only as Dr. Smith. you know he must know what he's talking about prfessionally because he has a paper diploma from med school hanging on his wall, he must be right? but you haven't the slightest idea what his med school was like, or how it was run, his grades, did he pay attention during a certain block of instruction, did he barely slide by acedemically or did he achieve. the mere fact that he has that diploma is proof enough for most people. you know nothing of this person, yet you have the strongest faith in him that when you go to see him, he'll be able to help you medically, he will make you feel better. you have utmost faith in him that he will diagnose your problem in a manner that won't have an adverse affect on your health.

Again, this is a rather misguided example! You are talking about two different concepts: one is "faith," (i.e. belief in something without evidence to prove or disprove any of your claims) and "trust." The example regarding the doctor refers to TRUST, not faith!!!! The dictionary defines faith as "2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs."

None of these definitions can be applied to your example, which is especfically related to the notion of "trust," i.e. "1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something." (according to Merriam Webster dictionary). As a side note: I do not have "faith" in my doctor. My doctor is a human being who has been trained in a the medical discipline; medicine is not an exact science (it's not mathematics), and hence the room for error and misjudgement is always there. As a patient, you have the obligation to be aware of this fact: you can put your ****trust**** in a particular doctor or hospital (either because they have been properly acredited, because their methods have been proven to work on people with similar sypmtoms, etc. etc.) but that is different from having blind faith in their "powers."

Finally: even though my questions were not addressed to you, since you are a self-proclaimed Christian, I would really like you to address some of the issues I raised regarding faith and ethical behavior. Equally, in response to your statement, I'll say the following: I know there are varying and conflicting interpretations within each and every one of the religions we are talking about (there is a progressive branch of Christianity just as there is in Judaism and an emergent - albeit still weak one - within Islam too). However, my problem with these currents is very simple: you need to practice mental gymanstics to get around the fact that the revealed texts that conform the basis of your belief effectively sanction practices that go against most of our modern values: from genocide, to slavery, to the prescription of execution for practices such as adultery or homosexuality. How do you reconcile this fact? If the revelaed text is indeed God's message to humanity, is it a relative message (i.e. contingent and specific only for a particular time in human history) or a universal one? If universal, what do you do with these "problematic" texts that prescribe inhumane and genocidal practices under the guise of religious moralism??? My problem is not the Bible (in fact, one of my favorite readings is The Book of Ruth, which I consider to be one of the most beautiful stories ever told): my problem is the people who think the Bible should become the measuring stick according to which our society should be organized. It is, after all, one of the reasons why my partner and I (both highly educated women, college-level professors and lecturers) are leaving this country in search of more open spaces where we can freely develop our intellectual abilities and live our lives in a non discriminatory environment, away from the psychotic attacks of the various strands of religious fundamentalism (whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) that are afflicting this country. My partner is an American citizen; I came to this country eight years ago attracted by what it had to offer. Eight years later, the disillusionment brought about by the unstoppable advance of the religious right and its insistence of imposing a rigid, doctrinal view of how society should be organized (we used to live in Virginia, which passed one of the most discriminatory laws against same-sex couples, even ****banning**** hospital medical healthcare directives for same-sex couples!!!) has forced us to make the painful decision of finding another place to live in.

Anyway: thank you for engaging in this debate!

Peace,
A.T.

 

[ave_turuta]

How about Islam Vs. Buddhism? Oh I forgot, its not PC to bash on Islam.

*Tongue in cheek, but see my point?*

I don't think Corporal Hicks meant to single out Christianity from other religions. My opinion is, in mentioning Christianity, he was just probably taking into account the fact that a majority of this board's users would be most familair with the Christian tradition.

Regardless: if you read his and my messages, you will realize that the questions raised apply to ****any**** religious system, not Christianity in particular.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[ave_turuta]

Not referring to you Ave,

I was speaking to the person who started the thread, because I have, in the past, taken arguements without first obtaining the needed information from both sides, not that C.H. hasn't done so, but just a friendly suggestion if it had not been done.

Cool! No problem. I agree with you on that particular statement.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[Cruentus]

Just some general info:

There are 2 basic branches of Buddhism -

Theravada: Focused on meditation and centering prayer; believes Buddha is a teacher and inspirer who reached nirvana. Zen falls into this category, although it is a spin-off and not exactly the same.

Mahayana: Involves more rituals and petitionary prayer. Believes Buddha to be the savior, similar to Jesus. Some sects throughout history have involved other dieties as well, usually influenced by Hinduism.

Badly Translated Kalama Sutra: Buddhas Charter of free inquiry

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.

2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.

3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.

4. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.

5. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

6. But when, after observation and understanding, you find anything that agrees with reason, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
Generally speaking, many Buddhists who are Zen or Theravada do not claim to follow a religion nor are concerned with religious matters because religious matters lead to arguements about future and past things and possibilities. A Zen Buddhist is mainly concerned with being in the now, not in the past things or the possibilities.

I'll leave you with a story:

There were several wise men arguing over the validity of one anothers beliefs. Each swore that they were correct and that the others were wrong. The arguements began to turn violent, so they sought the wisdom of the Buddha.

The Buddha told them the story of a king who brought several blind men into his court. Next, he would bring in an elephant and ask each man to touch the elephant. One man touched the elephants leg, and swore that it was a large pillar. Another touched the elephants side and knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that he was touching a wall. And so on.

He then relayed to them that worrying about matters that you can't fully perceive only causes unneccecary suffering within yourself.

Note: Not getting into the discussion really, just offering the info. Anyone interested in "my take" can call me.

Paul

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I don't think Corporal Hicks meant to single out Christianity from other religions. My opinion is, in mentioning Christianity, he was just probably taking into account the fact that a majority of this board's users would be most familair with the Christian tradition.

Regardless: if you read his and my messages, you will realize that the questions raised apply to ****any**** religious system, not Christianity in particular.

Peace,
A.T.

Indeed, I was mainly under the assumption (probably a poor one at that) that another majority of religious believers on here would in fact be Christian or that others here as Ave_turuta said would be most familar with the Christian tradition. I'm not singleing out Christianity for the purpose of attacking its roots, I chose it because its the one that I come into contact the most with in my society, and therefore can be of greater revelance in discussions outside of this forum.
Kind Regards

 

[Corporal Hicks]

your questions certainly don't offend me. i understand faith, as it applies to me anyhow, i just wouldn't do it any justice in explaining it, that's all. don't get me wrong, there is not a single thing wrong with this thread or where it exists. i just hope you get the answers to your questions, to your liking, although my better judgment tells me otherwise. it's a great topic! but like someone had earlier stated, i think it's going to be hard to compare the two. christianity is truly a religion of faith-based beliefs. i can imagine each and every follower of Jesus Christ can cite endless situations they felt their faith has helped them get through a tough time. to a non-believer, it may not be so clear. there's always intellectual rationale that could explain such from a non-believer's POV. to understand christianity, you must first understand the concept of faith. here's a better example:

at some point, i hope that we all are given the chance to have our questions answered. i have many myself, many that the bible or any pastor of the christian faith just can't answer. i hope that one day i get the chance, just like yourself, to have these things explained to me.

no two religions are RIGHT ON about anything. they will contradict each other endlessly. it's up to human beings to decide what gives them the best answer, what makes most sense to THEM. i find it hilarious that atheists can say they have no religion, but even having no religion is a religion in itself. it's the ideals you believe in that make this true.

Great post! Thanks for the reply.
I just thought though about your last statement that atheists have a religion of no religion. I used to think that but that statement just made me think again. Is that entirelly accurate?
Surely the fact you have no religion is a not actually a religion? Because you have no beliefs, or the belief that there is in fact no God. Buddhism would not consider itself a religion more of a Philsophy but that fact that there may be agnositic and aethists in Buddhism would mean that statement comes towards the assumption that infact they are religious. Or maybe I have just written this over a quibble of words!!!!

But what I like about your post is that you have shown to me that in fact there are some answers that yourself are unsure of and that you do understand that others have different POV's under circumstances which others in the Christian faith would label simply as God! In that I respect your open-mindnesses! Kindest Regards

 

[Tgace]

I think he means its their "religon" in the sense that many of them seem to take it as a quest to belittle, debate, debase and ridicule people who do espouse a faith. Mention you are religious or that you believe in Christ and wait for the stream of "prove it" posts.

 

[ave_turuta]

I think he means its their "religon" in the sense that many of them seem to take it as a quest to belittle, debate, debase and ridicule people who do espouse a faith. Mention you are religious or that you believe in Christ and wait for the stream of "prove it" posts.

Please provide evidence that either the Corporal or myself have in any way or instance taken this thread as "a quest to belittle, ...., debase and ridicule people who do espouse a faith." To debate, yes: to ridicule, absolutely not. Your accusation is unfair and dishonest.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[ave_turuta]

G
I just thought though about your last statement that atheists have a religion of no religion.

This is a favorite accusation of theists against atheism. It simply does not hold the water: atheism is an intellectual position, or "worldview" if you wish. The goal of the atheist is not to prove or disprove the "existence" (or lack thereof) of a supreme deity, but rather to apply reason, rather than blind faith, to the way we see our world. One of the consequences of this, most naturally, is the denial of belief systems that in our view are both irrational and contradictory.

I understand why people want to believe in something. I really do. Death is a scary place for many. Fortunately, it is not for myself. I have become accustomed to the idea that my life needs to be lived here and now, and once it's over, hey, it's over!!! While faith at the personal level can have a positive impact on the person, I am of the opinion that institutionalized religion is one of the most damaging ideologies for the good of human societies. The crusades, September 11th, and all the horrific acts and crimes that human beings commit against one another in the name of some obscure deity is a pathetic demonstration of the utterly destructive power of institutionalized religions. And I really don't care if we're talking about Christianity, Islam, or some obscure religious system that justifies the superiority of a particular group of people over others simply by virtue of adherence to a certain set of fixed principles (dogma). Religious texts have been constantly used to perpetrate horrific crimes against humanity, from genocide to genital mutilation to justifying the beating of women or their subordination to men, to justifying the execution of homosexual people, to whatever horrific crime you wish to think about. When believers defend their system of faith, they conveniently gloss over the fact that their belief system has indeed provided justification for all sorts of terrfying events. 19 bast***** killed 3,000 souls on September 11th; different bast**** of a different faith killed 8,000 souls in the Bosnian town of Srebrenica in 1996; different religions (the first Muslim, the second Orthodox Christian), same crap. I am denied basic rights every single day in this country because of the pressures of fundamentalist Christians who seem to think that their way of living is the only moral way. Excuse me if I am angry at how religious people utilize their sacred texts to put down others and discriminate against them! It seems to me like there is no shortage of religiously inspired horror in today's world.

Still: I would still appreciate it if a believer could answer some of the questions I posed above!

Peace,
A.T.

 

[ave_turuta]

I think he means its their "religon" in the sense that many of them seem to take it as a quest to belittle, debate, debase and ridicule people who do espouse a faith. Mention you are religious or that you believe in Christ and wait for the stream of "prove it" posts.

On the other hand, I ask you to read my post and locate the instance where I have asked someone to "prove" their belief. In fact, my questions have been rather specific and I have explicitly stated that my goal is not to prove or disprove the existence of a deity, but rather to discuss an entirely different set of questions which you are conveniently ignoring.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[Sapper6]

@ ave_turuta

faith is not confined to religion. your definition of faith states otherwise, regardless of your source, i don't agree.

you did state "

"trust," i.e. "1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something."

.

could this not be "faith" as well? i certainly think so. christian followers have assured reliance on the fact that Christ was the son of God and the bible speaks the truth. they can either "trust" the bible is truthful, or have "faith" the bible is truthful. it's all the same.

However, my problem with these currents is very simple: you need to practice mental gymanstics to get around the fact that the revealed texts that conform the basis of your belief effectively sanction practices that go against most of our modern values: from genocide, to slavery, to the prescription of execution for practices such as adultery or homosexuality. How do you reconcile this fact?

i don't. you're asking me to explain these things? i cannot. do these things represent me as a christian believer? no they do not. should you be held accountable for the actions of past homosexuals that commited haneous acts or crimes? of course not, so how can you expect me to as well?

1. Is belief in a supreme deity a necessary prerequisite for being a moral and ethical individual?

no it is not.

2. Is belief in an afterlife a precondition for maintaining an ethical worldview, and if so, why?

again, no.

3. Is salvation, in your understanding of the word, limited to individuals who profess their belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, or can it also be extended to individiuals who do not profess such view? If faith is a prerequisite for salvation, where do other non-Christian self-professed believers stand in this path? Can they be saved? What do you make of the obvious incompatibility between systems of faith that predicate salvation only through adherence to their particular tenets?

in the christian belief, yes. can others find this path? of course, only if they accept the words of Christ as written in the New Testament, based on faith, alone. the incompatibility? ahh, not everyone can be right. i agree with you. please note one of my previous statements:

no two religions are RIGHT ON about anything. they will contradict each other endlessly. it's up to human beings to decide what gives them the best answer, what makes most sense to THEM.

what other questions do you have? i have a feeling you possess a strong dislike for christians in general because of the way you've been treated by some in the past. please do not.

 

[ave_turuta]

what other questions do you have? i have a feeling you possess a strong dislike for christians in general because of the way you've been treated by some in the past. please do not.

Thank you for responding.

As for my "strong dislike for Christians," let me assure you that I simply possess a strong dislike for people who use irrational means to oppress others. Since I live in the United States and a majority of the people acting to deny me basic rights happen to be Christians (with a significant number of Jews and Muslims closely behind), and since these rights are being denied to me on the basis of the application of the tenets of the Christian faith and other institutionalized monotheistic beliefs, yes, I do have a strong hostility to this particular worldview. On the other hand, my partner lived in Saudi Arabia for 8 years (the most fundamentalist country in teh entire world): our opinion of Islam is equally negative. The difference between myself and a self-professed Christian who attempts to impose her/his values on the whole of society is as follows: in my imagined society, there is room for both of us. In theirs, there is only room for them. While I do recognize your right to worship as you deem appropriate, I do not understand why your faith must prevail in matters of public legality or when it comes to organizing society along the principles of justice and respect for human rights. Unfortunately, I see many of the features of a theocratic state being shaped today in the United States of America. And that is precisely why I am abandoning my life here and getting the hell out: because I am scared of what these self-appotined guardians of "morality" are doing.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[ave_turuta]

@ ave_turuta

faith is not confined to religion. your definition of faith states otherwise, regardless of your source, i don't agree.

you did state " .

could this not be "faith" as well? i certainly think so. christian followers have assured reliance on the fact that Christ was the son of God and the bible speaks the truth. they can either "trust" the bible is truthful, or have "faith" the bible is truthful. it's all the same.



i don't. you're asking me to explain these things? i cannot. do these things represent me as a christian believer? no they do not. should you be held accountable for the actions of past homosexuals that commited haneous acts or crimes? of course not, so how can you expect me to as well?


no it is not.


again, no.


in the christian belief, yes. can others find this path? of course, only if they accept the words of Christ as written in the New Testament, based on faith, alone. the incompatibility? ahh, not everyone can be right. i agree with you. please note one of my previous statements:



what other questions do you have? i have a feeling you possess a strong dislike for christians in general because of the way you've been treated by some in the past. please do not.

I will not quibble over the meaning of words (I was trained as a linguist, so this is all too familiar to me), but basically, no: trust and faith are different matters. Again, mental gymnastics are required on your part to justify your point.

One more question: if faith is nos a prerequisite for salvation, what is the point of "believing" in a system that imposes severe restrictions on you as well as others, and dictates subordination and oppression as a means for salvation? Secondly, your answers are contradictory: if only one path is "right," then how can you be moral/ethical if not following the "right" path?? ?? As for your comments on homosexuals: you are well aware that your comparison is problematic. Homosexuals (just as heterosexuals, white or black people) do not commit crimes because they are homosexual, heterosexual, white, or black. They commit crimes because they're individuals. However: when a crime is committed in the name of a particular belief system (whether it is Christianity, Islam, or whatever it is) yes, I do think people who suscribe to that worldview must be able to explain why these things happen. That is, why a system of faith that presumably speaks of goodness, benevolence, and salvation, is used to perpetrate injustices and horrific crimes against fellow human beings. It is not my duty to explain it: I am not a believer!!! People in the US have been demanding that Muslims condemn terrorism in the name of Islam, but I don't see Christians stepping up to the plate and condemning the barbaric acts committed by self-professed Christians, whether it is the bombing of Oklahoma, or the bombing of Planned Parenthood clinics. It seems to me as if there was a double standard when it comes to matters of "faith."

Peace,
A.T.

 

[Sapper6]

i agree with you on most points. yours is a human liberty issue. i understand that. it's an endless debate. like i said before, i hope you find the happiness you desire, be it in the United States of America, or elsewhere. the way i see it, gay and lesbians are gaining more ground in this country everyday and will continue to do so, while christians are actually losing, IMO. the USA isn't so bad, is it?

i'd like to hear more buddhist input in this thread. shall we?

 

[Sapper6]

...but I don't see Christians stepping up to the plate and condemning the barbaric acts committed by self-professed Christians, whether it is the bombing of Oklahoma, or the bombing of Planned Parenthood clinics. It seems to me as if there was a double standard when it comes to matters of "faith."

perhaps you're not looking in the right places then. what you see and what you hear are two entirely different things. the acts of a few cannot possibly be a direct representation of a group as a whole. you hold the entire christian faith accountable for the acts of some, as you quoted above, or you're simply stating that christians condone this activity simply because you don't "hear" them criticize these actions.

as for mental gymnastics, there's no need for that. mine is a matter of perspective. you couldn't possibly understand this, nor my personal faith, nor my beliefs. i hope that you find the answers you are looking for. i can never make you see it the way i see it, you must concede that. this debate is one of many that will continue on until we die. will both sides ever receive the answers they desire? perhaps not. maybe someday you will. i really doubt that day will take place on martialtalk.com.

wishing you well in your journey :asian: