Chow is in lineage of EPK????

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Brother John
Seems to me that Mr. Parker credited Mr. Chow with both history and inspiration and a solid foundation in the basics...
Mr. Parker included him in his history section in "Infinite Insights".
It'd seem a little silly to go leaving him out now.

Your Brother
John

Mr. Chow was not the one who gave Mr. Parker "a solid foundation in the basics" Mr. Parker developed his own ideas in basics through many advisors. Look at the tapes from his early years to the middle years to the latter years. Mr. Parker became self correcting through the concepts, theories and principles he developed with his people and through other people he worked out with.

I beleive Mr. Chow was accredited with teaching Mr. Parker about master key movements. This particular concept is very large and has much meaning. Mr. Parker completely evolved the way he did basics from the days of Mr. Chows instruction.

History of Kenpo- yes... The only problem with martial arts history is it's value. More nostalgic than anything else. Kinda reminds me of people that try to hold onto their family heritage... if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Kinda reminds me of people that try to hold onto their family heritage... if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?

I'm not sure I like your analogy, I don't fault my Irish heretage for the potato famine. The government at the time had no concept of soil management, Or I could fault England for not lifting a finger to feed those starving. Most governing methods of the past just couldn't deal with heavy populations. The problems that sent People to America were political and had nothing to do with heretage.
Sean

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I'm not sure I like your analogy, I don't fault my Irish heretage for the potato famine. The government at the time had no concept of soil management, Or I could fault England for not lifting a finger to feed those starving. Most governing methods of the past just couldn't deal with heavy populations. The problems that sent People to America were political and had nothing to do with heretage.
Sean

Huh? Read the whole thing, not just parts. It's about evolution not government.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Rainman


1-Mr. Chow was not the one who gave Mr. Parker "a solid foundation in the basics"

2-if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?

1- Everything i have read here is telling me Chow was a kick *** fighter and produced a lot of grandmasters. Be careful what you are saying.

if Chow didn't give Parker a solid foundation in the basic, how Mr Emperado came up with his kenpo in his Art????.

If you were NOT there when Chow taught Parker, i suggest you to keep this BS statement for yourself

this is the FIRST time in my life i hear such statement about Chow's teaching here

2- Why don't you ask your GREAT GREAT GREAT grandparents about this before asking everybody that question?????

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

EPAK practitioners can start their "lineage" graphs anywhere they want. But, there are many other branches of Kenpo and many related arts. If you think that Chow had no influence, then you need to take a look at this.

http://www.interactivesmack.com/kajukenbo/kenpofamilytree.cfm

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka


http://www.interactivesmack.com/kajukenbo/kenpofamilytree.cfm

your link doesnt work. please check.

thanks

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

http://www.interactivesmack.com/kajukenbo/kenpofamilytree.cfm

Actually, I posted the correct link, but MT doesn't display it properly...

"http://www.interactivesmack.com/kajukenbo/kenpofamilytree.cfm"

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
your link doesnt work. please check.

thanks

The original link worked fine for me. Even when OFK reposted the links, they still worked fine. You might want to retry the links.

- Ceicei

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Rainman
Mr. Chow was not the one who gave Mr. Parker "a solid foundation in the basics" Mr. Parker developed his own ideas in basics through many advisors. Look at the tapes from his early years to the middle years to the latter years. Mr. Parker became self correcting through the concepts, theories and principles he developed with his people and through other people he worked out with

Chad: Don't be silly.
I never said that Mr. Parker didn't go light-years beyond what Mr. Chow gave him. I said that as Mr. Parker's Kenpo instructor was Mr. Chow...Mr. Chow gave him his foundation. A foundation is something you build from, Mr. Parker did become 'self-correcting', a teacher of himself...but he didn't make the basics up, he refined them and sophisticated their execution. I didn't say he didn't develop, but that he started (foundation) with Chow.
Obviously Chow was an 'inspirational' person; look how many fine arts had their start in the minds and hands of his students.
I don't see the big hang-up here Chad.
You don't like Prof. Chow in your lineage? Don't tell your students about him. It really doesn't matter does it?

I beleive Mr. Chow was accredited with teaching Mr. Parker about master key movements.

How the heck did he accomplish This lesson without first having a common knowledge of the movements? That'd be a 'foundational' knowledge huh?
jeez...

History of Kenpo- yes... The only problem with martial arts history is it's value. More nostalgic than anything else. Kinda reminds me of people that try to hold onto their family heritage... if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?

You don't 'value' heritage? Ok. That's your problem. What's wrong with nostalgia? People are highly motivated in many areas of life by nostalgia. You have a problem with "family heritage"? That too is your problem. Some people find a great deal of inspiration and pride in this; it also helps motivate us to keep up the high standards and honor of their families; to give the same pride and legacy to their children.
I don't 'try to hold onto' my family heritage, I live it. No I can't speak Scottish or German or French... the language isn't the heritage... it's the history. The faith, the family stories...even a crest or 'coat-of-arms' or two...traditions, etc. these are a big part of the heritage.
what of it?
There was nothing wrong with my families countries of origin. Nothing. No famine, no outlandish oppression... but they took what they had that was good (heritage?) and brought it to a land of even greater opportunities; more chances to grow and exhibit the quality that each generation gave to the next.

...I could go on, but the argument's gone flat.
aka; not worth it.

Me-thinks you struck the wrong cord with your somewhat zenophobic analogy.


Your Bro.
John

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Rainman
Huh? Read the whole thing, not just parts. It's about evolution not government.

I read the whole thing. I'm sure TOD did too.
YOU read this, tell me if it's about "evolution"....

Kinda reminds me of people that try to hold onto their family heritage... if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?

You may think that this is out of context.
Personally, I don't see how it fit in 'context' with everything else you were trying to say.
Sounded just inflamatory.


Your Bro.
John

 

[CoolKempoDude]

we need to put this in our thick skull.

We don't know how to fight automatically after we were born. Somebody will teach us how to fight.

whether you recognize somebody in your lineage is morally obligation.

kenpo/kempo is not here recently. it began thousand years ago and we are still talking about it.

you may have your own system and teach your own way but you should not forget your teacher.

other grandmasters acknowledge their own *teachers* in their lineage.

why AK is so special???? i don't know

chow is not a bad person to put in your lineage. the fact that your GM learned from him and you recognize it in your lineage is something your AK people should be proud of.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Brother John
Chad: Don't be silly.
I never said that Mr. Parker didn't go light-years beyond what Mr. Chow gave him. I said that as Mr. Parker's Kenpo instructor was Mr. Chow...Mr. Chow gave him his foundation. A foundation is something you build from, Mr. Parker did become 'self-correcting', a teacher of himself...but he didn't make the basics up, he refined them and sophisticated their execution. I didn't say he didn't develop, but that he started (foundation) with Chow.
Obviously Chow was an 'inspirational' person; look how many fine arts had their start in the minds and hands of his students.
I don't see the big hang-up here Chad.
You don't like Prof. Chow in your lineage? Don't tell your students about him. It really doesn't matter does it?


How the heck did he accomplish This lesson without first having a common knowledge of the movements? That'd be a 'foundational' knowledge huh?
jeez...


You don't 'value' heritage? Ok. That's your problem. What's wrong with nostalgia? People are highly motivated in many areas of life by nostalgia. You have a problem with "family heritage"? That too is your problem. Some people find a great deal of inspiration and pride in this; it also helps motivate us to keep up the high standards and honor of their families; to give the same pride and legacy to their children.
I don't 'try to hold onto' my family heritage, I live it. No I can't speak Scottish or German or French... the language isn't the heritage... it's the history. The faith, the family stories...even a crest or 'coat-of-arms' or two...traditions, etc. these are a big part of the heritage.
what of it?
There was nothing wrong with my families countries of origin. Nothing. No famine, no outlandish oppression... but they took what they had that was good (heritage?) and brought it to a land of even greater opportunities; more chances to grow and exhibit the quality that each generation gave to the next.

...I could go on, but the argument's gone flat.
aka; not worth it.

Me-thinks you struck the wrong cord with your somewhat zenophobic analogy.


Your Bro.
John

1. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins

2. My family heritage is American

3. My martial art is American Kenpo

4. Ed Parker developed the art of American Kenpo

5. Xenophobia is fear of foreigners- Heritage is something passed down. What are you talking about "Bro John"?

6. If you get a chance to veiw tapes of Mr. Parker's history you will see what I mean. What Mr. Parker did was develope a language to go with the movements and to aid in refinement. This is THE difference Brother John. Mr. Parker's basics were different in his own art than they were in Chow's art. You can start with the Nuetral bow. That was non-existant in the early footage I have seen. In American Kenpo you are always in and out of the nuetral bow... see what I mean yet?

7. The "foundational knowledge" good one. Not really, Mr. Chows art did not have forms... some say that is 1/3 of our art... Some say an "internal" aspect of our art. Who taught Mr. Parker the value of forms? Our art clearly has a chinese flavor hence the writing on the patch in book 1, fill in the gaps yourself.

8. I am pro American and pro American Kenpo. American Kenpo started with Mr. Parker end of story. This is an EPAK forum not a general Kenpo forum.

9. Now John, it is okay by me if you have a facination with the occult and belong to the free masons... Because one of my grandfathers belonged to that cult it would be in my heritage right? NO. We as Americans have the right to pick and choose as we like. The only thing we are bound by is the Law.


For the coolkempodude

No one in my family ever flew the union jack, it was stars and stripes all the way baby. I never knew anyone in my family to be anything else even if they were of chinese, japanese or mexican backgrounds. My family is enormous so we pretty much have all the races. There are no Chinese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Irish-Americans, European-Americans or anything else. We are all just American even if not all born here.

Were you there? Do you know anything about American Kenpo? Do you even know what the Basics in American Kenpo are?

 

[teej]

CoolKempoDude, you posted the original post and it seems somewhere throughout all this, the posts have gone off in several directions.

The original question "suggests that AK (American Kenpo) begins and ends with EP". It did not say "Kenpo" it said "American Kenpo". Ed Parker practioners make a distinction of "American Kenpo". It is NOT the same Kenpo that Ed Parker taught when he first came to the mainland as he learned from Professor Chow. You should already know the history of how years later, he formed his "OWN SYSTEM".

If you look at Mr. Bishops lineage chart, it appears to be very accurate trace of "Kenpo". You will also see on his chart that after certain names he has (**) to show Kenpo teachers that have started their own sub system of Kenpo.

All of these Kenpo sub systems started with the instructors that formulated them, (ie, the names with the ** after them).

SGM Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate, starts with him, Ed Parker. That is where the term "AMERICAN Kenpo Karate" came from. Not with Chow. The same with all the other sub system names. They are also distinct with Chow being in their "Kenpo" lineage, but not their sub-systems lineage.

Now looking at the Bishop chart, do you see who the first one to form a Kenpo sub system was??? Professor Chow forming Kara Ho Kempo Karate! Mitose is not in the Kara Ho Kempo Karate tree. Hoon Chow is not in the Kara Ho Kempo Karate tree, because Kara Ho is a Kenpo sub system. However; Hoon Chow and Mitose are at the top of the tree of "Kenpo". (unless someone else goes and traces it back further than these two men.)

And on another point, to my knowledge, all of these Kenpo sub system originators have been respectful of Professor Chow and acknowlege him in their "KENPO" (just plain old kenpo) training.

So yes Professor Chow is around the top of the kenpo lineage, yes there were others before him going back hundreds of years.
The people that you are hearing say that Professor Chow is not part of American Kenpo is because they understand AK as a sub system of what Chow taught. If you go back and ask any of them again and make the distinction of American Kenpo, and just Kenpo, I feel confident that they will give Professor Chow his place towards the top of Kenpo lineage.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej

 

[Michael Billings]

But Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, (note: I did not call it American Kenpo), was never called American Kenpo until after Mr. Parker's death. The name change has something to do with trademarks and copywrite laws and his estate's trying to retain those ($$$).

I can see it both ways, as Mr. Parker trained with Mr. Chow and his brother, and was already an experience fighter before then. He was strongly influenced by many other stylist after his moving to the mainland, and maintained strong relationships with many, many, many fellow Martial Artists both here and back in the Islands.

When I made an earlier statement about "American Kenpo" being 90% his, I was talking about the paradigm shift away from learning basics or techniques, "because this is how it has always been done", to a conceptual framework that was based more and more on Principles, Concepts, and Theories, as he added, pruned, and re-evaluated Kenpo. Creating Principles and the nomenclature for communicating those to his students.

You should really sit down and listen to some of the Seniors talk, the men and women training with him in the 60's. They each have their own perspective of course, but Mr. Parker never denied his history or lineage, but at some point Kenpo was his, and he was Kenpo ... his flavor, not anyone else's. Whether it is the Tracy brothers, breaking off in the early 60's and being more sucessful with his "franchise" idea than he was, or whether from the Emperado lineage, or Kara-ho lineage, I think Mr. Chow has to be credited with teaching Mr. Parker his "foundation" of basics and techniques.

It has what has happened to Kenpo since then that made it uniquely his. It is neat to see the divergent points, where different students left him. I was doing a seminar with a friend, who has been a Dan Inosanto student and instructor, since the late 60's - and lo and behold, he did a version of Gift in Return. Remembering when Dan Inosanto started studying JKD, or Jun-Fan, with Bruce Lee, the early 60's, it is like seeing a snapshot of the past when I watched someone from another system do a technique I had considered unique to Kenpo. The same with the old footage from the 1950's, then the Chinese Kenpo of the 1960's (a la Tracys), or Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate of the 1980's. You see the common thread going back to his original training.

Certainly the disparity the various stages in the evolution of Mr. Parker's Kenpo makes it difficult, if not impossible, to pin down the "WHEN", as you look for the point at which it became, what Rainman calls "American Kenpo." That is because Mr. Parker never pinned it down. Kenpo continued to evolve during his lifetime, both in his hands and his students. There is no telling where it would be today had he remained with us ... but there is lots of speculation by those groundfighters out there.

They should look at some of the old Wally Jay tapes I saw, circa 1955 or earlier. Gee, it looked like BJJ, except standing up and always trying to regain your feet unless going for the finish. Rough and tumble, they used the guard, got out of it as soon as possible to get back to your feet, in fact they would kick someone out of their guard to regain their feet ... but there was no lack of grappling or finishing holds, just not a lot of rolling around on the ground when facing multiple opponents. Wally Jay rocked even back then.

Whoops, I digressed.

Have a good one,
-Michael

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
But Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, (note: I did not call it American Kenpo), was never called American Kenpo until after Mr. Parker's death. The name change has something to do with trademarks and copywrite laws and his estate's trying to retain those ($$$).

I can see it both ways, as Mr. Parker trained with Mr. Chow and his brother, and was already an experience fighter before then. He was strongly influenced by many other stylist after his moving to the mainland, and maintained strong relationships with many, many, many fellow Martial Artists both here and back in the Islands.

When I made an earlier statement about "American Kenpo" being 90% his, I was talking about the paradigm shift away from learning basics or techniques, "because this is how it has always been done", to a conceptual framework that was based more and more on Principles, Concepts, and Theories, as he added, pruned, and re-evaluated Kenpo. Creating Principles and the nomenclature for communicating those to his students.

You should really sit down and listen to some of the Seniors talk, the men and women training with him in the 60's. They each have their own perspective of course, but Mr. Parker never denied his history or lineage, but at some point Kenpo was his, and he was Kenpo ... his flavor, not anyone else's. Whether it is the Tracy brothers, breaking off in the early 60's and being more sucessful with his "franchise" idea than he was, or whether from the Emperado lineage, or Kara-ho lineage, I think Mr. Chow has to be credited with teaching Mr. Parker his "foundation" of basics and techniques.

It has what has happened to Kenpo since then that made it uniquely his. It is neat to see the divergent points, where different students left him. I was doing a seminar with a friend, who has been a Dan Inosanto student and instructor, since the late 60's - and lo and behold, he did a version of Gift in Return. Remembering when Dan Inosanto started studying JKD, or Jun-Fan, with Bruce Lee, the early 60's, it is like seeing a snapshot of the past when I watched someone from another system do a technique I had considered unique to Kenpo. The same with the old footage from the 1950's, then the Chinese Kenpo of the 1960's (a la Tracys), or Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate of the 1980's. You see the common thread going back to his original training.

Certainly the disparity the various stages in the evolution of Mr. Parker's Kenpo makes it difficult, if not impossible, to pin down the "WHEN", as you look for the point at which it became, what Rainman calls "American Kenpo." That is because Mr. Parker never pinned it down. Kenpo continued to evolve during his lifetime, both in his hands and his students. There is no telling where it would be today had he remained with us ... but there is lots of speculation by those groundfighters out there.

They should look at some of the old Wally Jay tapes I saw, circa 1955 or earlier. Gee, it looked like BJJ, except standing up and always trying to regain your feet unless going for the finish. Rough and tumble, they used the guard, got out of it as soon as possible to get back to your feet, in fact they would kick someone out of their guard to regain their feet ... but there was no lack of grappling or finishing holds, just not a lot of rolling around on the ground when facing multiple opponents. Wally Jay rocked even back then.

Whoops, I digressed.

Have a good one,
-Michael

You have some good ideas Mr. B... However I will bet you a t-shirt from your school your time frame on American Kenpo is wrong and the term was coined by Mr. Parker before his death.

 

[Brother John]

A quick recap for those who didn’t read through the junk that’s come before from rainman and myself:
He made an analogy that didn’t work and was inflammatory.
I reacted in kind and was snotty.
He redoubled his efforts, ignored a good point I had and made me sound like some kind of Satanist…
I’ll pick up from there:

Chad-
Since you gave us the convenient numbers, lets use those.

You said:
#1: Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.
True in one sense, but I do my work with ‘pride’, I’m ‘proud’ of who I am, I’m proud to be an American (and a Kansan), I take pride in a job well done… I won’t apologize for these things. You can make me out to be a sinner if you like, I know different.

You said:
#2: My heritage is American.
Me too! For the last 190 years. Before that…three European nations. Nothing wrong with that. As Bruce Lee said (at least I think it was him) “Tradition is a matter of time, how far back do you want to look?”. All I’m saying is that I can be a good American and still hold dear to the heritage that my European ancestors handed down. Guess I look back further. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with not doing that.

You said:
#3: My martial art is American Kenpo.
Me too!
What’s your point?

You said:
#4: Ed Parker developed the art of American Kenpo.
Yes he did. He developed it, but not ex-nihilo, he had an instructor that taught him techniques. I personally don’t care if you want to call it history, lineage, heritage, family tree or what have you. Semantics are tricky things. In the end everyone knows that Mr. Parker studied Kenpo under Prof. Chow, that’s all I’m saying. He wasn’t his only teacher by FAR…but I think he was the foundation. SGM Parker ‘developed’ Kenpo, a word which means to take a thing and further it.

You said:
#5: Xenophobia is fear of foreigners- Heritage is something passed down. What are you talking about "Bro John"?
My point is that you sounded like you were coming down on anyone who appreciates their family heritage. In saying something so rude as “if your families country of origin was so great why didn't they stay there?” That’s damned rude Chad, offensive beyond need. THAT’s what I was talking about “Rainman”. You can’t say such tripe and not expect others to respond in kind.
What’s your point Rainman?

You said:
#6: If you get a chance to veiw tapes of Mr. Parker's history you will see what I mean. What Mr. Parker did was develope a language to go with the movements and to aid in refinement. This is THE difference Brother John. Mr. Parker's basics were different in his own art than they were in Chow's art. You can start with the Nuetral bow. That was non-existant in the early footage I have seen. In American Kenpo you are always in and out of the nuetral bow... see what I mean yet?

Not sure. Sounds like you didn’t see a neutral bow in some antiquated footage. I didn’t say that Mr. Parker’s art wasn’t 99.9% different than what he started studying, just that when he started studying it was with Chow…who did teach him fundamentals. Not THE fundamentals the we now have, no. But he did get fundamental instruction from Chow.
So?

You said:
#7: The "foundational knowledge" good one. Not really, Mr. Chows art did not have forms... some say that is 1/3 of our art... Some say an "internal" aspect of our art. Who taught Mr. Parker the value of forms? Our art clearly has a chinese flavor hence the writing on the patch in book 1, fill in the gaps yourself.

I don’t need to fill in any gaps, I understand and agree with this point. No forms before Mr. Parker…now we have forms.
It still doesn’t negate the fact that Mr. Parker w/out knowledge in Kenpo (except for the little that Frank gave him) and left Chow with Kenpo knowledge. See my response to #6. Sam Ting.

You said:
#8: I am pro American and pro American Kenpo. American Kenpo started with Mr. Parker end of story. This is an EPAK forum not a general Kenpo forum.

Maybe you are just so high on your high-horse that I can’t hear you right.
What’s your point? Are you saying I’m NOT pro-American or pro-American Kenpo???
You’d be dead-wrong on either point.
“American” Kenpo did start with Mr. Parker.
Again: What’s your point?
It still doesn’t negate the fact that Mr. Parker studied Kenpo with Mr. Chow…
Seems like you’re just arguing to be arguing.

You said:
#9: Now John, it is okay by me if you have a facination with the occult and belong to the free masons... Because one of my grandfathers belonged to that cult it would be in my heritage right? NO. We as Americans have the right to pick and choose as we like. The only thing we are bound by is the Law.

Hmmmm…could this one be THE one where you are just trying to anger me?
Could be.
But I don’t care.
A. I don’t have a fascination with the occult. At the time I wrote that into my profile I had been doing a research paper on Carl G. Jung’s work with the symbolism of Alchemy…I did this for one of my Psychology papers in College. I found his study very very fascinating. You have a problem with that? Does that make me an ‘occultist?’
B. Are you telling me that Freemasonry is a ‘cult’? It isn’t. Occult means ‘hidden’ or ‘secret’. If I knew the name of the city you lived in I could find the phone numbers, address and names of men in the Lodges near you…that’s not very ‘secret’ is it? I don’t care to go into it with you, if you really want to find out more- do so on your time. I really don’t care how you feel about my fraternity.But in insinuating that I’m in the occult or in a cult… come on Chad. This form of mudslinging should be below either of us I’d think. I am a born-again Christian. End of story.
C. Your heritage is that part of what came from those before you that you chose to embrace. If your forefathers were masons and you didn’t want to be one, that’s your deal. It is my heritage, I am a freemason…same as every male in my family since well before we came to this blessed land.


Your turn, if ya wana...
personally, this is a tired argument.

Your Brother
John

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Brother John

Your turn, if ya wana...
personally, this is a tired argument.

Your Brother
John

No I'm bored- what was your "good" point.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rainman
Huh? Read the whole thing, not just parts. It's about evolution not government.

well what you have done is trivialized identity. This is important to a lot of people and you, like me, have so many different points of family origin that it is hard to identify with those with only one. However, just because you have latched on to just being an American and are content with that, does not mean that others should follow suit. Jews exist to this day only because of their sense of community and beliefs; no country, including the USA were looking out for them in WWII, or any other point in history. Now people are suggesting heretage is a vestage of the past now that Americans were forced to accept them in the 60s civil rights era. People are not evolving. We will do what we are taught to do and some will attempt to improve or make it better.
Sean

 

[teej]

Well Mr. Billings, I have to agree with Rainman on the time frame of the reference "American Kenpo". As you know, the Infinite Insite series were copyrighted in 1982 with the writting of material obviously taking place before this. In volume #1 in the Preface, page v, it states " It was written to expound upon the merits of "American Kenpo".... 5 paragraphs later it goes on to say, "Once understanding the principles upon which Kenpo is based, you will learn that "American Kenpo" is an art becase of its implementaion of scientific laws."

To me, again this is clearly defining a difference, or sub system if you will, between American Kenpo, and the art of Kenpo. (refer to the last sentence above how it distinguishes between Kenpo and American Kenpo.) And this was well before Mr. Parker passed away.

My instructor does happen to be a senior and Professor Chow's importance and contributions to Kenpo have been taught, atleast in the school I was brought up in. In fact, as I recall, the technique "Lone Kimono", I am taught, has it's origins from an incident that happened to Professor Chow in a bar in Hawaii. Again, myself and the students that have trained with me have been taught of Professor Chow's contributions and others.

You mentioned Danny Inosanto. Some of the readers may not know that Danny Inosanto was a 2nd degree Parker black belt BEFORE he went on to train with Bruce Lee. (Wasn't it in "Game of Death" that Danny did the Kenpo technique "Dance of Death??) And I assume we can attribute Ed Parker with their introduction. (I am assuming on this, does anyone out there know the actual story? How about it Doc?)

This forum concerning Professor Chow has referenced the fact that Mr. Parker trained with others besides Chow, that have influenced "American Kenpo." Mr. Billings mentioned Wally Jay. I understand that Wally Jay and SGM Parker were good friends spending time together and that they frequently exchanged ideas. Some of the others that I have heard of that Mr. Parker worked out with are Ark Wong, Ming Lum, Jimmy Woo, and Danny Lee. So you see, others besides Professor Chow had influences on the origination of "American Kenpo".

For me, the importance of lineage is purley historical, especially now that Mr. Parker is gone. The history should not be forgotten and there is so very much out there that is not written down or being passed on, the history, the stories, etc. There are new black belts out there that cannot even explain what Kenpo is. What a shame to our system. But that is a topic for another discussion.

Years ago, the first time I met Gil Hibben, he told me that Kenpo was family. I have always remembered this and found it to be true, atleast where I have been exposed to it. And as in any family, there are unfortunately differences. Now I have never met Mr. Billings, but the way I was taught and the way I look at things, and the way I teach my students for ex., Mr. Billings and I share a brotherhood in Kenpo, and he would be treated with that respect should we ever meet, as with the meeting of any Kenpo black belt. And I treat all Black belts, regardless of style, with respect. It is just that with American Kenpo black belts, there is a family tie. This is my views and the way I teach. So any of you reading or responding are respected, the American Kenpo Black Belts have a family tie respect. (just my views and beliefs, if yours are different, start another forum on the subject)

I see this topic going in all directions. But I do feel strongly about the historical importance of lineage. The past shouldn't be forgotten. So I am going to start another forum under the heading of "Memories of Mr. Parker". Please veiw it and lets see where it goes.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej

 

[teej]

Just to further the referencing of "American Kenpo"Karate. I realize that it is getting difficult to obtain copies of Ed Parker's "Infinite Insights into Kenpo" series. but if you go beyond the preface to Chapter two, it is titled "History of American Kenpo". Pages 7-42. 35 pages dedicated to History. Page 21, Mr. Parker gives James Mitose credit as having the desire that " Kenpo would one day become Americanized". (SGM was never a student of Mitose, and never trained with him, just a side note)

He further goes on to credit Professor Chow with "cultivating the seed of American Kenpo". So again, it still was not American Kenpo. He credits that teaching Chow's "master key movements" as educational stepping stones enabling himself to reach "higher" levels in Kenpo.

He talks of his "Intent to improve Kenpo to fit the needs" of the American student, and how he dedicated himself to purse all avenues to obtain these goals. He credits experiences teaching the public and Law Enforcement of making him aware of what the needs were. You see the seeds were planted and he was working towards developing the system. Page 34 outlines the steps and process that he took to systematize the Parker system.

He goes on to refer to it as a modern version of Kenpo and on pg. 41, he refers to it as "American Kenpo". Finally, the last page, P.42, is dedicated and titled "Ed Parker's Kenpo Family Tree of Black Belts of AMERICAN KENPO".

So I stand by my earlier conviction of the original thread question. Professor Chow is not on the family tree of American Kenpo. He is not an "American Kenpo" black belt.

Most assuredly, his contributions are evident. He had a tremendous impact on the development of several sub systems of Kenpo. And he has a "just" a spot in the lineage of "Kenpo" Karate.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej