Chi Sao with Sifu

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by futsaowingchun, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Nobody Important

    Nobody Important 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    457
    Trophy Points:
    203
    We have a similar drill in YCW WC. We call it Double Circling Hands. It has aspects of pummeling, it's a key component of Kum Na.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    3,107
    Likes Received:
    1,045
    Trophy Points:
    213
    What I think is interesting is this. 4 different Lineages have both now said they do the same thing, the difference is origin/perspective. Some have it 100% built it. I will find out, for the purpose of this conversation if mine is blurred. I will explain.

    My Sifu is the student of, Keith Mazza, the US Rep of William Cheung. Sifu Keith also teaches Tai Chi Chuan. So on Monday I am going to ask my Sifu if the push hands we do is built into TWC or something he and Sifu Keith got permission to integrate from GM Cheung. Both are VERY big on having GM Cheung approve of stuff. Hell my school teaching WC and Kali in parallel (vs seperate classes) wouldn't exist without his permission.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NJ, USA
     
  4. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    I watch it over again ..My sifu never grabs my wrist..but even if he did,so what? thats called Lop sao?
     
  5. LFJ

    LFJ Senior Master

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    451
    Trophy Points:
    298
    More like :23~:24. His right hand is clearly fully clasped around your left wrist.

    I would not call this laap-sau, because it doesn't pull. It in fact doesn't appear to serve any purpose other than perhaps to hold on to your wrist so your arm doesn't go anywhere for a moment.

    I would just call that holding.
     
  6. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    His hand is open its not a hold. like in a fok sao.he is using what we call a hook to control my movement
     
  7. LFJ

    LFJ Senior Master

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    451
    Trophy Points:
    298
    His thumb is wrapped around your wrist, man... He's holding on.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    2,439
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Why don't you like "grabbing"?
     
  9. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Just because his thumb is wrap around my wrist does not make it a grab. he is using as a hook not a hold or grab. we do it many ways. his hand is actually open but in a loose curve. If he where to grab me there I could break his wrist easly and he knows it.
     
  10. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Who said I don't like grapping? I grab all the time .not in that video because it's a drill in flow..
     
  11. LFJ

    LFJ Senior Master

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    451
    Trophy Points:
    298
    ...Oookay then...
     
  12. Vajramusti

    Vajramusti Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    123
    --------------------------------------
    -Grabbing defeats the purpose of good lop sao motion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    2,439
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    I can see grabbing in this clip.

     
  14. Vajramusti

    Vajramusti Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    123
    -----------------------------------
    yes he is. But I dont know who he is and what he is trying to do.
     
  15. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,483
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    We also do not grab in our "lap-sau" drill, but in some other situations very definitely employ a lap/grab. Isn't this also true in AF WC?
     
  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    2,439
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    2 questions here?

    - Even if you may not like to grab but since you can't prevent your opponent from grabbing you, do you still need to train how to grab and how to break a grip?

    - Do you ever try to pull your opponent into your punch?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,483
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    In the VT I train, we do not pull inwards, towards our bodies, but we do often grab an arm and jolt it downward (jut-sau) disrupting his balance, or use body rotation to yank the opponent sideways off balance, or a sort of push-pull movement to exploit the opponent's reaction -- the kind of stuff commonly found in grappling arts. Such actions are typically used to disrupt our opponent's balance in order to facilitate striking as WC/VT is a striking art, though we do have a few good throws or sweeps too. Even in a striking art, I find there something immensely satisfying about slamming an opponent to the ground.

    Hmmm... maybe I really am a grappler at heart. Ah "...the road not taken" and all that. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,720
    Likes Received:
    2,439
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    The "grabbing" is the gate to open you into the grappling world.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    347
    Trophy Points:
    123
    "Opposite actions" / yin-yang, pull-push, push-pull...power generation ideas. Strike impact amplification.123
     

Share This Page