Can You Fight with Tai Chi?

[Xue Sheng]

I'd recommend you all pick up a DVD of the 1993 movie "Tai Chi Master" with Jet Li and Michelle Yeoh.

Now you did it

Did you just say Michelle Yeoh…. You sure did You just HAD to throw Michelle Yeoh into it… didn’t you..... Thanks

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Apparantly there are some fighting applications.......

When will this video DIE!!!!!????

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Now you did it

Did you just say Michelle Yeoh…. You sure did You just HAD to throw Michelle Yeoh into it… didn’t you..... Thanks

Personally, I like Lucy Liu. :mst:

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Personally, I like Lucy Liu. :mst:

Agreed
Everytime I see her, I get a mental Roar sound in my head..../sigh

 

[Phoenix44]

Lucy Liu???

Excuse me, but Michelle Yeoh is a serious martial artist and stuntwoman, who happens to be a babe.

Lucy Liu is a babe who happens to train in martial arts...

...which of course doesn't really affect the topic that this thread has obviously degenerated to, but there is a distinction.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Lucy Liu???

Excuse me, but Michelle Yeoh is a serious martial artist and stuntwoman, who happens to be a babe.

Lucy Liu is a babe who happens to train in martial arts...

...which of course doesn't really affect the topic that this thread has obviously degenerated to, but there is a distinction.

Oh please! Michelle has had NO formal marital arts training. She may be cute, but she's a dancer and a stuntwoman.

:angel: Lucy :angel: trains right here in NYC! Oh, and yes, she is a such a Super Babe!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh please! Michelle has had NO formal marital arts training. She may be cute, but she's a dancer and a stuntwoman.

:angel: Lucy :angel: trains right here in NYC! Oh, and yes, she is a such a Super Babe!

True but I don't care I will always pick Michelle Yeoh over Lucy Liu any day of the week,

Michelle Yeoh yes....Lucy Liu no

Michelle Yeoh... NOT Lucy Liu



Now back to your regularly scheduled post that has nothing to do with Michelle Yeoh

Now you see what start when you mention..... You know who... who was also Miss Malaysia

 

[Xue Sheng]

And in an effort to get this thread back on track, since I played a REAL big part in getting it off track

To use Yang Taijiquan as a martial arts for fighting as Yang style is meant to be used would require an understanding of the 13 postures as well as push hands training (stationary single hand, stationary double hand, 3 step, four corner, and free style). And of course form training as well as Qigong training. It is a long process and you need to be patience to get there.

Chen style I have much less training in but I do feel (aka IMO), although it would take time to use it as a martial art Ias Chen is meant to be used I do feel it would not take as long as Yang style.

Edit - I need to add this

Basically I pity the fool that tries to test any of the Chen family or Tung/Dong family or a few other long time taiji sifus out there

Actually a person did attempt to test a member of the Chen family at his own seminar; basically the person attacked him without warning. And although the Chan family member felt very badly about the outcome the Chen's response put the attacker into cardiac arrest and needed to be taken to the hospital by Ambulance…. The attacker did survive.

Do the majority of Taijiquan people today have this level of skill? No
Do the majority of Taijiquan people training today know about Taijiquan martial arts? No
Do the majority of people training Taijiquan today even know it is a martial art? Likely no

 

[Dean]

This Thread is about Tai Chi and its ability to actually be used in a combat situtation. If there ever arose a time where you had to fight and defend yourself. Could you do using Tai Chi?

Do Tai Chi practioners only do push hands are do you also spar?

Hi Yoshiyahu,

Yes, Tai Chi Chuan was initially created to be a Martial Art. It also was discovered to be beneficial to the health. Nowadays, is it often performed as a health exercise for various reasons.

Initially, depending on the teacher, push hands are practiced. As a student progresses moving push hands may be introduced. Sparring as you know it, IMO, is not practiced. However, with continued training and learning application one can gain skills for means of self-defense.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In principle...yes. In practice...you'd be hard-pressed to find a school that trained solely Tai Chi and made it practical. It's usually taught for health or as an adjunct to another kung fu system.

I agree. I was at work one evening and another woman was watching a Tai Chi Video. She aksed me to take a look as she knew I did martial arts. I said that it was martial arts as well. She said, no it was health only. I then went through and explained the throw and brakes and strikes to her. She was upset that I had taken the beauty and changed it to violence.

I agree that form my perspective I coudl see how it would be possible to fight with Tai Chi. But if that is all you ever did and at that speed it would be difficult to really learn self defense, in my opinion.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I agree. I was at work one evening and another woman was watching a Tai Chi Video. She aksed me to take a look as she knew I did martial arts. I said that it was martial arts as well. She said, no it was health only. I then went through and explained the throw and brakes and strikes to her. She was upset that I had taken the beauty and changed it to violence.

This is not surprising, I had a student walk out of the middle of class once after yelling "THIS IS NOT KARATE" just because another student asked me if it was a marital art and I said yes.

I agree that form my perspective I coudl see how it would be possible to fight with Tai Chi. But if that is all you ever did and at that speed it would be difficult to really learn self defense, in my opinion.

Apps are not trained slowly, you need to train a lot of push hands if you want to go for the MA of it and there are reasons for the slowness of the form. Besides there are fast forms too.

 

[Rich Parsons]

This is not surprising, I had a student walk out of the middle of class once after yelling "THIS IS NOT KARATE" just because another student asked me if it was a marital art and I said yes.



Apps are not trained slowly, you need to train a lot of push hands if you want to go for the MA of it and there are reasons for the slowness of the form. Besides there are fast forms too.

Xue,

I have no doubt that slow training is benficial. I train slow and at other speeds as well to work on timing. It also allows one to work on balance and flow of techniques.

I did not mean to imply that slow was bad, only that those that I have talked to who trained, were not into the self defense portion.

 

[Ninebird8]

Xue, like your Freudian spelling there, that tai chi is a marital art, rather than a martial art....LOL!! Hope that same woman does not see that! Did this same woman get real mad when or if she was told the real meaning of the words tai chi quan? That must also have gone over well. In any event, I will say emphatically, not only is it a beautiful martial art that I have felt many times from Sifu Bolt and Sigung Yang, but it has acted as the bridge and filling in the gaps for my kung fu fighting as well! It helped convert me from a technician to understanding the naturalness and flow of the movement, as well as the continuous connectivity from one movement to the next. Not to mention, being a wee bit hyper, making me slow down a little bit and seeing the application, beauty, and wonder of moving slow but hitting fast....LOL!! And, also learned the beauty from tai chi of "sooner" rather than faster or quicker!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue,

I have no doubt that slow training is benficial. I train slow and at other speeds as well to work on timing. It also allows one to work on balance and flow of techniques.

I did not mean to imply that slow was bad, only that those that I have talked to who trained, were not into the self defense portion.

I did not think you did, I just wanted to explain a bit of what Taiji is or can be. But then this goes to another post out there onMT as to why do I feel the need to do this :lol:

I most cases I actually enjoy the advantage of people thinking it is slow and useless :EG:

 

[Ninebird8]

Amen Brother Xue, they never see us coming or striking, and yet we are slow?????? Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes!!

 

[mograph]

There are a lot of people out there who are afraid of even a whiff of martial intent regarding tai chi. They may even have issues with competition in sporting events.

No doubt most among you have had to find creative ways to keep those students on board by describing the necessary interplay between health, relaxation, structure and martial intent. What works for me (currently) is this: when performing a move, I try to imagine a duifang or counterpart who receives the move or martial intent. This counterpart is not acting as the recipient of violence, hatred or injury, but actually completes the move or posture. For example, if I imagine the counterpart's arm in my hands, I place them correctly. And so on.

Now, to get over the idea of aggressive action, the student could imagine a friendly "oh, good hit old chap!" kind of contest, where both players have respect for each other, then retire to the bar afterwards and have a great old time. Or whatever.

Regarding the "this is not Karate" shouter, in hindsight, it would have been interesting to ask him/her in a calm manner, "why are you so angry?"
But what would have been the point ...? Hm.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Regarding the "this is not Karate" shouter, in hindsight, it would have been interesting to ask him/her in a calm manner, "why are you so angry?"
But what would have been the point ...? Hm.

Well, I would have, had I had the chance it happened rather fast, shout about not being Karate immediately followed by storming out of class. Sad part about it was she was actually pretty good at doing the form.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

So you would say to be a Tai Chi Fighter one should:


1.Practice Forms Extremely Slow and also Fast?
2.Practice the different Variations of Push Hands?
3.Practice Chi Kung?

An then with in Six years you would be able to Fight with Tai Chi?

And in an effort to get this thread back on track, since I played a REAL big part in getting it off track

To use Yang Taijiquan as a martial arts for fighting as Yang style is meant to be used would require an understanding of the 13 postures as well as push hands training (stationary single hand, stationary double hand, 3 step, four corner, and free style). And of course form training as well as Qigong training. It is a long process and you need to be patience to get there.

Chen style I have much less training in but I do feel (aka IMO), although it would take time to use it as a martial art Ias Chen is meant to be used I do feel it would not take as long as Yang style.

Edit - I need to add this

Basically I pity the fool that tries to test any of the Chen family or Tung/Dong family or a few other long time taiji sifus out there

Actually a person did attempt to test a member of the Chen family at his own seminar; basically the person attacked him without warning. And although the Chan family member felt very badly about the outcome the Chen's response put the attacker into cardiac arrest and needed to be taken to the hospital by Ambulance…. The attacker did survive.

Do the majority of Taijiquan people today have this level of skill? No
Do the majority of Taijiquan people training today know about Taijiquan martial arts? No
Do the majority of people training Taijiquan today even know it is a martial art? Likely no

 

[Xue Sheng]

So you would say to be a Tai Chi Fighter one should:


1.Practice Forms Extremely Slow and also Fast?
2.Practice the different Variations of Push Hands?
3.Practice Chi Kung?

One needs to understand the form, push hands and the 13 postures as well as Yang Chengfu's Ten Essentials if your talking Yang. Oher styles may vary

An then with in Six years you would be able to Fight with Tai Chi?

Nope, I would not say that. It depends on how much you train how much you train if you see your sifu everyday, train everyday and train push hands everyday, maybe if you see your sifu once a week train a couple times a week and do push hands every now and then no

There are no shortcuts ad taiji takes a long time.

 

[Dean]

One needs to understand the form, push hands and the 13 postures as well as Yang Chengfu's Ten Essentials if your talking Yang. Oher styles may vary



Nope, I would not say that. It depends on how much you train how much you train if you see your sifu everyday, train everyday and train push hands everyday, maybe if you see your sifu once a week train a couple times a week and do push hands every now and then no

There are no shortcuts ad taiji takes a long time.

Hi Xue Sheng or Whatever your real name is,

I personally don't think Yang Chengfu's examples are one's to live bye. He was obese and out of shape. In my opinion, much of what occurred earlier training wise was lost. Just my thoughts.