Can you be a lover and fighter?

[Corporal Hicks]

Heres an interesting statement:

"I can have no partner, nor do I need one, for a partner takes away the fire for the fight. I've no need for sensual or sexual activity it only makes me weaker internally"

I picked this statement out of a recent newspaper about some up and coming boxer and some statement he had made, its not the exact words but its something like that, seeing I've just lost the damn paper and now cant put the exact quotes.

But it made me think, for both guys and gals here, what are your views? Do you think that having a partner could make your internally weaker and weaken your appetite for training?

What about being sensual and sexual? Do you think because you are being soft and are involved in those sort of activities (I'm watching my step here lol) that you are losing something and cannot be rated as a "hard man".

What about the statement in itself? Can you be a lover and a fighter? Or will you be a better fighter if your not a lover or vice versa?

Regards

 

[Insedia_Cantharis]

Absolutely. Having people you love around you can streangthan you to no end. Family, partner, whatever. These things are the ones you will protect with every fiber, every ounce of your being.


Another quote. From a movie, Seabisket (sp?): "The next time you lose by a nose, you had better fall off trying."

Sometimes your loved ones are the only things worth fighting for. Nothing will ever make you, force your soul to get angry enough to harm a human being. Animal instinct.

 

[MA-Caver]

Sounds like to me this "up and coming" boxer is going to be another Tyson... an animal who just brutalizes everyone and thing in his path. Thinking that intimacy will make him weak.
The human psyche cannot exist or function for very long or efficently without some positive interaction between another human being. Sex/sensuality isn't always necessary but it is a positive bonus to the interaction because of the pleasure that the two involve and the intimacy required to preform either.
Laughing, working, playing, eating, sharing, BEING, and everything else that involves interaction between humans (on a civilized level) is just prerequisite for any human being to function normally. Some people are able to function without for prolonged periods but eventually it's like having a pin hole in your oil pan gasket... it's gonna lock up and crash.

"I can have no partner, nor do I need one, for a partner takes away the fire for the fight. I've no need for sensual or sexual activity it only makes me weaker internally"

Anyone who (paraphrased) this statement isn't going to be human when they get into the ring or any social setting. I'd be wary and wear steel ear-muffs.

 

[shesulsa]

Love is the most powerful force in the universe - how can it be wrong to love? The absence of love is death itself - emptiness.

Hwa Rang Do is dialectic - hard and soft. Without balance, you are only using half your power. Knowing when to be um (yin) and when to be yang is probably a key to higher knowledge.

Sexual and sensual activity involves the sharing of energy - males give energy to the female and she receives (I wonder if the effects of tantra on the exchange can cause energy to be channeled through the male rather than his expending his own energy...more research needed on that). Also, we are sexual beings. I think the repercussions (sp?) of self-denial are well documented as being channelled into abusive situations (catholic priests, homosexual child abuse, etc).

However, there is, I'm sure, a small sector of the population that is asexual and that suffer no ill effects from complete abstinence.

I'm not a man, of course, so I don't know the full effects of energy depletion as related to sexual activity from that standpoint - I can only rely on the discussions I've had with my partners and close friends.

Interesting point for discussion - hopefully, most won't shy away from this due to its nature.

 

[Jay Bell]

I agree with a lot so far. Sex is a need. I'll explain..

What happens when a guy or girl buddy of yours is pent up and easily agitated? The token phrase is, "You need to get some."

Going long periods of time without that type of intimacy can do some pretty harsh things on your psyche. (Note: I'm *not* advocating running around and getting some just to settle your hostile nature down a smidge, but sexual need is very real)

Which is why I'm so chipper and good natured all the time.

 

[Sarah]

Which is why I'm so chipper and good natured all the time.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Yes, it depends on the context. If someone just wants to fight all the time - or they cannot fight if there is tenderness in their life elsewhere - I wouldn't really know how to talk to him or her. That seems very alien to me. Of course, I am a pretty emotional person, and feel things very strongly. One of my best motivating factors if I had to fight, would be to protect someone I love. It's taking that idea and reaction and channelling it into protecting *myself* that is so interesting to me.

One of the sort of unspoken questions seems to be, "Can you focus all of your energy on training/fighting if you are having sex too?" Well, if you are overworked, not eating enough or sleeping enough, I'm sure that would drain your energy for fighting. If that's not the case, I don't see the problem.

If this boxer just wants to rage against the world, perhaps deciding not to have a romantic partner is not a bad idea. Seems like a shame, though, for someone to decide you can have one or the other, but not both. I want both.

 

[Cryozombie]

I agree with a lot so far. Sex is a need. I'll explain..

What happens when a guy or girl buddy of yours is pent up and easily agitated? The token phrase is, "You need to get some."

Going long periods of time without that type of intimacy can do some pretty harsh things on your psyche. (Note: I'm *not* advocating running around and getting some just to settle your hostile nature down a smidge, but sexual need is very real)

Which is why I'm so chipper and good natured all the time.

Ah.

Explains why I hate the world...

 

[Eldritch Knight]

Musashi never took a wife. He said plenty of things against taking up a partner including the following:

"Do not desire lust"
"Do not go away from the Way of Sword"

By conditioning himself against the need for intimacy, he was able to survive and thrive on simply his dedication to the Way. He, amongst others, have found that sexual enterprise is and always was a detriment to the focused mind. By attaching oneself to the needs and hopes of another mind, one loses the ability to focus on the Way.

 

[Genin Andrew]

"We need to fight for love and love to fight"

I think a man is alot more at peace with himself when he is loved by a woman, when we are in a comfortable relationship we worry and stress less,lust becomes more about expressing love than "cheap pleasure". I have found that at the moment because i am in a strong comfortable relationship i am happier and more laid back.

I think in a combat sense it helps mentally,love is the strongest emotion and if we can handle it and express it, it is a great accomlishment of our mental strength. When in combat a "lover" would be less tempted to let 'anger' drive his fighting. I think love is a comfort that a warrior is lucky to have. In my view it is a definite advantage. Simple things like love help us appreciate whats important in life and whats "really worth fighting for...

much respect
-andrew

 

[shesulsa]

Now, do you think he is truly speaking of complete abstinence?

One can experience lust, lovemaking, sex, etcetera without softening one's will or swaying one's way if their core is strong, no? Aren't we REALLY talking about the avoidance of consumption of earthly things? If there were no soldiers, samurai, ninja, sulsa in need of sexual release, how many prostitutes would there really be?

Secular devotees disavow all earthly posessions, wed themselves to a spiritual being, and supposedly abstain from all sexual activity. What happens? How many do you think TRULY are able to manifest a pure, innocent way? Sounds to me like there is plenty of sexual activity amongst these people - and not much mutually satisfying, to pollyanna the exact meaning of that statement.

Surely if one allows lust to rule them, they will lose their abilities to do much else. Or we could simply say, "Surely if one allows (fill in the blank) to rule them...."

The way of the sword, fist and hand, flowering knights, empty hand, (insert your way here), is focal - not all-emcompassing.

The sharing of your being can make you more powerful with an excellent partner...hard as those are to come by.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

Musashi was known for his single-minded devotion and aescetic lifestyle, so I certainly wouldn't put it beyond him to abstain from sexual activity altogether and to promote that sort of behavior. This is especially so considering that the Way that they followed was entrenched in Buddhism which expressly forbids this sort of behavior. This is done not as for a function of one's will, but as a detachment from pleasure. By limiting one's dependence on earthly pleasure, they were able to acheive oneness with themselves and eventually Nirvana.

Would they engage in sexual activity despite being on that path? Not likely, IMO, considering how devoted they were. That level of devotion is rare today, and hardly exists in the Western world. I had a small peek at that when I was at my prefectural kendo tournament in Japan and saw the reigning champions warm up. Its a shining devotion that just seems to yell "I AM kendo". There is no way that any of them would ever consider anything else.

The entire point of the Way is to provide a means to acheive the end. I guess its hard to explain to a Western audience, but the Way is not meant to be all-encompassing - it is designed to bring a single-minded practitioner towards a single goal. Martial arts, meditation, tea ceremony, calligraphy - these are each a Way, and serious practitioners will be serious about following it without exception.

 

[TigerWoman]

Yes, of course you can, but not to either extreme. Being all engrossed with fighting does not do much for the love life and too much of the other activity can leave you exhausted to workout. Like with most things of opposite nature, it is a balance. Actually makes for a good love life. What a motivator for martial arts! hmmm Put that on a brochure. TW

 

[Ceicei]

In other words, there needs to be Yin and Yang to become whole. :yinyang:


- Ceicei

On a side note, being in martial arts have actually improved my relationship with my husband.

 

[shesulsa]

Okay, now I'm really sticking my neck out on the line because I know my teacher and his teacher reads all this stuff...(deep breath here...)

Musashi was known for his single-minded devotion and aescetic lifestyle, so I certainly wouldn't put it beyond him to abstain from sexual activity altogether and to promote that sort of behavior.

Are you including masturbation in that statement? Are you qualifying that as sexual activity? Or limiting this to sharing oneself with another?

 

[deadhand31]

I'm reminded of a story I heard about Musashi. I don't have the specifics, so I'll paraphrase.

He was sitting with a monk, meditating. A venomous snake approached the pair. The monk was at harmony with the Earth around him, and the snake passed over him as if he were another branch. It approached Musashi, and bared it's fangs. Musashi gave it a look, and the snake was frightened by the sense of his devotion to combat, and slithered away from him.

A few minutes later, Mushashi looked distressed. The monk asked him what was wrong, and he replied that he was not happy with the snakes reaction. He knew that the snake did not really fear him, but feared the warrior's ability within him. Meanwhile, the snake was able to sense the person that the monk was, and did not harm him.

Musashi spent the rest of his days trying to find that serenity.

Musashi dedicated his life to the sword. In doing so, he became a feared swordsman. However, he was never able to know whether people respected him, or what he could do.

Had he allowed himself to love, what might have happened? Could he have found that serenity?

At the risk of being emasculated, I think the most peaceful moment of my life, was when I was laying with my girlfriend, in a tight embrace, not doing a darn thing. To feel someone I love in my arms, and to be in hers, just brings a peace beyond words.

As for being a lover and a fighter... I think I should quote Adam Sandler from the movie "Punch Drunk Love": "I have a love in my life, that makes me stronger than anything you can imagine."

Food for though. :uhyeah:

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I like the idea somebody gave earlier about this balance between the two (apologies for not quoting).

Do you think that not giving in to these seuxal thoughts and er....yearnings if you like: is going against nature? As Bruce lee said "You should be at one with nature, not fight against it" (something like that) could you apply this saying to this sceniro?

Think of all the greatest fighters you know of and see if they had wives or not, maybe we can draw the conclusions that there truely is "a great woman behind every man"

I'll start of with two against each other, one being mentioned earlier

Mike Tyson (didnt follow the rule but then again he is an animal as mentioned earlier)

Bruce Lee (had wife Linda, which he loved very much)

who else?

Regards

 

[OC Kid]

As others have said I think everyone needs balance in their life. One of the most desired things people have is to be loved. A person needs that in order to have something to fight about or for. If you fight for fightings sake who does it benefit? Not yourself, not your family not even your opponent.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

I'm reminded of a story I heard about Musashi. I don't have the specifics, so I'll paraphrase.

He was sitting with a monk, meditating. A venomous snake approached the pair. The monk was at harmony with the Earth around him, and the snake passed over him as if he were another branch. It approached Musashi, and bared it's fangs. Musashi gave it a look, and the snake was frightened by the sense of his devotion to combat, and slithered away from him.

A few minutes later, Mushashi looked distressed. The monk asked him what was wrong, and he replied that he was not happy with the snakes reaction. He knew that the snake did not really fear him, but feared the warrior's ability within him. Meanwhile, the snake was able to sense the person that the monk was, and did not harm him.

Musashi spent the rest of his days trying to find that serenity.

Musashi dedicated his life to the sword. In doing so, he became a feared swordsman. However, he was never able to know whether people respected him, or what he could do.

Had he allowed himself to love, what might have happened? Could he have found that serenity?

That monk, Takuan Soho, was actually instrumental in the evolution of the Japanese sword culture, as a matter of fact. In a set of letters he wrote to another great swordsman, Yagyu Munenori, (later compiled into a book - "The Unfettered Mind") he illustrates the concept of "no-mind" and "unmoving-mind". The basic precept of both of these concepts is absolute and total focus and control. If one allows one's mind to waver or become fixated in a worldly thing, then one will be destroyed. Here's a link to the referred text.

The moral of the above story was to illustrate a turning point in the life of the young Musashi. Being a brash and violent youth (as well as an amazing swordsman), Musashi chose ferocity as his focus rather than serenity. By realizing at that point in time that he had drifted from the Way, he later took steps to master it in all its forms. The key is that they were all following the Way - departing from it, even for an instant, was out of the question. What would happen if he had allowed himself to love? Simple: the snake would have bit him.

 

[The Kai]

One of my teacher's said "It's not the sex that makes you weak and tired - it's what you do to get it!" Ha Ha

Todd