Can MA training ruin a natural fighter?

[lonecoyote]

Look I'm not responding as angrily as you think I am, we both agree on a few points and I stand corrected about what you were saying as far as fighting being part of the martial arts. I do agree. The central point of my post was that sometimes people training can unlearn what works best for them. You have not addressed this, but instead brought in everything but the kitchen sink, peoples character as human beings, Ed Parker quotes(me too, but you first),snide remarks "OOOh, that'd be terrible" This is not personal, we are sitting in front of computers. Maybe you should cool down by writing another list.

 

[SenseiBear]

I would say yes, but only temporarily. at first, as they are learning techniques and training their body, they may lose some of that skill. But after enough training they will be able to re-incorporate those abilities into their arsenal of techniques. I personally think it will be easy for them to do so if they train in a school that focus's on real defense, or even NHB fighting... but once their skill level becomes high enough they ought to be able to even if the style they chose was a non-contact karate... They may even be able to use their MA skills better than their classmates, because they already have experienced what is needed to deliver full contact techniques.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Good slogan, and I mean it.

"Before I studied Zen, mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers. When I began to study Zen, mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers any more. Now that I have become enlightened, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers again."

 

[MichiganTKD]

It also depends on what you mean by "natural fighter". If you mean someone naturally inclined toward NHB or UFC, they very likely wouldn't be in a Tae Kwon Do class anyway. However, there are Tae Kwon Do fighters who are naturally aggressive, understand footwork, flexible, and gifted. These are natural fighters as well. They prefer the free fighting aspect of Tae Kwon Do. And don't kid yourself-hard TKD free fighting is just as hard core as any other style.
Back to my point. It is very possible that someone unqualified or subpar in free fighting could take a naturally gifted fighter and ruin him. I've seen it happen in my own organization. I know black belts who are frustrated because their own Instructor can't teach them the way they need to be taught.
So it is not that martial arts training can ruin a natural fighter, it is being taught by an unqualified individual who does understand how to bring out his best.

 

[loki09789]

Is any 'natural talent' ever really fully developed without some form of instruction or learning? NO.

Shakespeare would not have been the wordsmith he was if he had not spent time studying other writers (heck he almost wholesale stole from Plutarch for the historical plays). We don't have "natural talent" scientists who never were trained, or "naturally talented" pilots, soldiers, or any other skill/career/craft that people can practice as a trade without some formal training.

Natural talent is like raw material and is sometimes called "raw talent" that formal instruction can refine and mold. If targets and directs the talent so that it can be combined.

Talent isn't enough though. THere has to be passion for the topic that your natural talent is in, some kind of work ethic, some kind of desire to 'take it to the next level', sometimes there has to be LOTS of logistic support (financial support, family support for driving/encouragement/...).

Think about the Olympiads that just finished competing. I imagine they all had some 'natural talent' that made them stand out BUT they almost to a person ALL talked about how their coaches and 'heros' really helped them find their best performance.

Whether a very formal (school type) or informal (backyard group or like a "Finding Forrester" type of mentorship) or a sink or swim environment, people will learn how to use their natural talents.

I would say look back on all the things that seemed to be 'natural talents' and really think about it. Usually it is something that you love doing and don't even realize that you have spent thousands of man hours doing it because at the time it was FUN. It was fun making improvements or just doing it, horsing around. I used the Gretzky example because, according to his interviews and his father's own recollection, no one had to tell him to "practice hockey" when he was home. He loved the sport and 'played' hockey so much that he mastered skills early and enhanced his natural talent with practice - it just didn't feel like practice. SO I would say that the "Great natural talents" need to be passionate about what they are naturally talented in or else the talent will not develop because it will not be used, improved or developed to a level that will get noticed.

The POINT of a training/education program is to develop a language and sensory awareness of what and how you are operating "naturally." That means learning the language/jargon of the "meta" study. Martial artists use tons of jargon for the sake of communicating specific things that either need to be evaluated, trained or tweeked. Once that is established, you progress through skill sets that are suppose to build from earlier training.

GOOD training will promote or progress people based on demonstrative skill AND UNDERSTANDING on a conscious level of what they are doing so that they are aware of what they do well or poorly for further improvement OR to be conscious of what they are using to 'create' new or improved performance.

Folks that are purely natural talents without a love of what they are talented in, without a conscious 'feel' for what they are doing or without a common language to discuss things so that they can seek guidance or understand guidance will be like animals - they can do it at an instictual like level, but they don't know where they are or how to get to the next level.

We are humans, we perform best with conscious understanding and willful examination DURING TRAINING. When the fit hits the shan, you still have to be able to 'click on' (which should be something that is part of the training).

 

[Andrew Green]

There are hard core tennis players too, it's got nothing to do with fighting...

 

[cfr]

'Scuse me, but are you folks reading?

cfr's post specifically equated working out with "normal," people, and becoming a better person, with becoming a lesser fighter.

The "normal" thing yes. However, you were the first one to bring up the better person thing.

 

[8253]

I believe that in some situations MA training can ruin a natural fighter. For instance if the person goes to a school where there is a lack of street knowledge, or if the instructor hasnt done the job correctly. Where i train, rules only apply during sparing, and then it was only enough to keep anyone from getting injuries, such as broken bones, eyes poked, etc. But as far as natural fighters go, sometimes they dont always fight the smart way. They are willing to take punishmet to get in their one or two moves to end the fight. The purpose of training is to teach a person to be able to end the fight as quickly as possible while taking as little punishment as possible. If a person is tought properly it will not ruin their previous fighting abilities, but it should expand upon their abilities.