Burmese Boxing and Bando what is the diffrence?
- Thread starter Mider1985
- Start date
Burmese Boxing (Bama Lethwei or Lethwei) is one of the sporting aspects of Burmese martial arts. There are similiarities to Muay Thai, and, in fact, there is a long history of great fights between Burmese and Thai fighters. Early rules of Burmese Boxing were brutal; few techniques were prohibited, and fights continued until one fighter was no longer able to rise to the challenge.
Bando is roughly a generic Burmese term for "martial arts." It can be said to mean "a way of discipline", "a system of self defense", or "empty hand or unarmed fighting." It can be said to be similar in meaning to "budo" or "wushu". So, Burmese Boxing is simply one part of Bando.
There are different styles of Bando, with different sorts of emphasis. The American Bando Association was founded to preserve many aspects of Burmese martial arts, including Bando Boxing (full contact fighting) under modified rules, free fighting or middle style (this is similar to tournament karate), naban (Burmese wrestling and grappling), and the 9 Animal Systems, which are each complete martial arts emulating and paying honor to the fighting spirits and survival strategies of the various animals. Bando Animal Systems are not imitative or mimicry; they emulate and apply the strategies, hence the Boar makes use of furious powerful rushes while the Cobra using lightning fast strikes to vital targets and the Python wraps and crushes and locks the opponent. You can learn more about the ABA at their website.
Phil Dunlap teaches a Kachin Bando System, which is (in my opinion) recognizably related, but has some differences as well. His website is currently triggering warnings on my computer so I'm not going to link to it... Phil has posted here on MT in the past; maybe he can add to this discussion.
Bando is roughly a generic Burmese term for "martial arts." It can be said to mean "a way of discipline", "a system of self defense", or "empty hand or unarmed fighting." It can be said to be similar in meaning to "budo" or "wushu". So, Burmese Boxing is simply one part of Bando.
There are different styles of Bando, with different sorts of emphasis. The American Bando Association was founded to preserve many aspects of Burmese martial arts, including Bando Boxing (full contact fighting) under modified rules, free fighting or middle style (this is similar to tournament karate), naban (Burmese wrestling and grappling), and the 9 Animal Systems, which are each complete martial arts emulating and paying honor to the fighting spirits and survival strategies of the various animals. Bando Animal Systems are not imitative or mimicry; they emulate and apply the strategies, hence the Boar makes use of furious powerful rushes while the Cobra using lightning fast strikes to vital targets and the Python wraps and crushes and locks the opponent. You can learn more about the ABA at their website.
Phil Dunlap teaches a Kachin Bando System, which is (in my opinion) recognizably related, but has some differences as well. His website is currently triggering warnings on my computer so I'm not going to link to it... Phil has posted here on MT in the past; maybe he can add to this discussion.
My instructor has a DVD he picked up in Thailand of arranged MT type fights between the Thais and the Burmese (can't get used to calling Burma Myanmar), the 'ring' was made up of ropes strung between trees and the event was held right on the border bewteen the two countries. he said he got the impression that it was an illegal event though whether that was because it was fighting or because of border issues he wasn't sure. It's very interesting though. All the fights looked like Muay Thai rules and I assume there was a lot of betting going on which could be another reason it was perhaps illegal.
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
Tez 3:
For the Songkron holiday and only during that holiday, they have the bare knuckle fights which are in effect technically illegal in Thailand usually in the North near the border. In Burma, its their Lethwei tradition so its on going. The rules are fought under bare knuckle rules which follow Burma's tradition with head butts and throws allowed.
There are the annual televised Songkron Burma Vs Thailand event usually from Mae Sot on Thai TV and its a pretty big event. I have copies of this going back to the late 80s up and running every year since and i've been there personally two or three times.
The Songkron fight between Thailand and Burma are to the commemorate all the years of battles between them during this new year holiday. Many Burmese cross the border to see the fights and there is more lack atmosphere at the border for that one day.
There are smaller fights like you mention with the makeshift ring and they may occur in other places around that time. They craft a ring just like they do in Burma where rings are hard to come by and usually only the major fight promoters have them. The old rules fights are in a makeshift ring in sand or dirt and they still have them in burma. They do the smaller events like that raw when the bigger ones are held in areas people cant get to.
M-80 Thailand used to promote big challenge bare knuckle fights between countries and included laos as well but they havent done them in a long time.
Betting is an active part of fighting tradition in Burma and Thailand so you'll always see it wherever fighting is happening. The betting is very interesting is burma because they send money up into the ring to encourage the fighter to fight harder and win. its kind of cool. Betting is a long tradition in sports fighting in southeast asia as a whole so you'll see it everywhere.
For the Songkron holiday and only during that holiday, they have the bare knuckle fights which are in effect technically illegal in Thailand usually in the North near the border. In Burma, its their Lethwei tradition so its on going. The rules are fought under bare knuckle rules which follow Burma's tradition with head butts and throws allowed.
There are the annual televised Songkron Burma Vs Thailand event usually from Mae Sot on Thai TV and its a pretty big event. I have copies of this going back to the late 80s up and running every year since and i've been there personally two or three times.
The Songkron fight between Thailand and Burma are to the commemorate all the years of battles between them during this new year holiday. Many Burmese cross the border to see the fights and there is more lack atmosphere at the border for that one day.
There are smaller fights like you mention with the makeshift ring and they may occur in other places around that time. They craft a ring just like they do in Burma where rings are hard to come by and usually only the major fight promoters have them. The old rules fights are in a makeshift ring in sand or dirt and they still have them in burma. They do the smaller events like that raw when the bigger ones are held in areas people cant get to.
M-80 Thailand used to promote big challenge bare knuckle fights between countries and included laos as well but they havent done them in a long time.
Betting is an active part of fighting tradition in Burma and Thailand so you'll always see it wherever fighting is happening. The betting is very interesting is burma because they send money up into the ring to encourage the fighter to fight harder and win. its kind of cool. Betting is a long tradition in sports fighting in southeast asia as a whole so you'll see it everywhere.
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
jks9199 really keyed in on the original question.
You mostly see Thaing systems which are martial systems of different variables as well as different fractions Burmese Bando in Burma. Many of them teach empty hand, weapons, self defense and some carry the sport component of bare knuckle and some do not.
Lethwei is bare knuckle fighting and it is synonymous with the Southeast Asian region. Laos, Burma, Thailand and Cambodia all had or have bare knuckle tradition of similiar rules. Burma held to their bare knuckle fighting tradition while the others moved toward a more westernized sport with rules, safety issues and that innovation came from Thailand.
In Burma today though there is some westernized influence in Lethwei though they hate to admit that and it comes in the use of one ref, timed rounds, shorter duration fights, stricter rules, etc. But it remains the last place in SE Asia where bare knuckle is an action living tradition that continues on.
In recent years, they tested out a amateur version of Lethwei with gloves, headgears and chest protectors but it didnt go over too well and hopefully they wont try to revive it. It was mostly a push by the military to try to do a sanda version because most of their influence now is from china. Their attempt as well to flatten the indigenous thaing and bando into a true wu shu form is not far off and they are bulldozing their way through this plan at an alarming rate.
You mostly see Thaing systems which are martial systems of different variables as well as different fractions Burmese Bando in Burma. Many of them teach empty hand, weapons, self defense and some carry the sport component of bare knuckle and some do not.
Lethwei is bare knuckle fighting and it is synonymous with the Southeast Asian region. Laos, Burma, Thailand and Cambodia all had or have bare knuckle tradition of similiar rules. Burma held to their bare knuckle fighting tradition while the others moved toward a more westernized sport with rules, safety issues and that innovation came from Thailand.
In Burma today though there is some westernized influence in Lethwei though they hate to admit that and it comes in the use of one ref, timed rounds, shorter duration fights, stricter rules, etc. But it remains the last place in SE Asia where bare knuckle is an action living tradition that continues on.
In recent years, they tested out a amateur version of Lethwei with gloves, headgears and chest protectors but it didnt go over too well and hopefully they wont try to revive it. It was mostly a push by the military to try to do a sanda version because most of their influence now is from china. Their attempt as well to flatten the indigenous thaing and bando into a true wu shu form is not far off and they are bulldozing their way through this plan at an alarming rate.
I can't speak for what's going on in Burma; the Bando I train in is what was brought to the US by Dr. Gyi. My understanding is that the term "Bando" is a word much like "martial arts" or "kung fu" and is somewhat specific to the synthesis art combining numerous indigenous arts to preserve them following the periods of the British Colonial era and the Japanese conquest. I don't think I'd expect to find a "bando" school on the corner any more than you would have found a "karate" school on the corner in Okinawa during the late 1800s/early 1900s when Funakoshi was introducing both the art and the name to Japan.
Thaing is, as I understand it, the more specific term for unarmed combat. Banshay is the word for armed combat. Lethwei is the sport of unarmed combat, and naban refers to wrestling.
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
Vasi
If you are in Burma or talking with Burmese, Thaing is an all encompassing term and it certainly is not nor ever has been only limited to empty hand, it is a full breath system and you find it within any of the ethnic groups such as Rakhine, Kachin, Chin, Karen etc. The more you travel the more you will see all the different variation and variety there is. Much of which is still undocumented.
If you want specifically Bando then you can locate down those instructors who are teaching it. There are two that I know of in Yangon which is the easiest location to navigate around in Burma. There was also some confusion at one point with a senior kung fu master called his kung fu style Bando and he was teaching in the local YMCA but he has shifted the name back to Maha Kunan in his adverts now.
If you are in Burma or talking with Burmese, Thaing is an all encompassing term and it certainly is not nor ever has been only limited to empty hand, it is a full breath system and you find it within any of the ethnic groups such as Rakhine, Kachin, Chin, Karen etc. The more you travel the more you will see all the different variation and variety there is. Much of which is still undocumented.
If you want specifically Bando then you can locate down those instructors who are teaching it. There are two that I know of in Yangon which is the easiest location to navigate around in Burma. There was also some confusion at one point with a senior kung fu master called his kung fu style Bando and he was teaching in the local YMCA but he has shifted the name back to Maha Kunan in his adverts now.
