Budoiko Ryu & Ninjutsu history (was Frauds,Fakes,Conman,Scam artists)

[jks9199]

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-jks9199
-MT Moderator-

 

[Bester]

What a wonderful thread this is. I love it when the "I'm more Japanese than the Japanese" people come out. :wavey: Nice to see you all with us today. Have you tried the soup? Really, you should try the soup.

Where was I? Oh yes. Commenting on this wonderful thread. It is wonderful to see such creative misuses of language on the part of the ignorant and confused.

EBudo is filled with people who live in Japan, native speakers, life long transplants, 10,20,30 years or more. Many of their members are also members here, or are in contact with members here. Those are my sources for information on legitimate Japanese arts. From what they tell me, there are only the *Kans as legitimate ninjutsu lines. The rest are fakers, pretenders, liars and frauds. Yes, some have legitimately split off like Hayes, but Hayes's star isn't looked upon that well by many in the legit lines. Others who are farther from the source are considered corrupted and distorted as well as watered down and inferrior at best. Complete and utter garbage was how one estemed and in the know person put it. Oh, his rank is quite high I might add, and his name's been mentioned a few times, and he outranks everyone on this thread. But, I'll let the inquisitive search for it.

Such a lovely spring day, don't you think? The flowers are starting to grow, the trees bud, and the frauds are starting to emerge from their gloomy caves. I smell something on the wind again, and it's reminds me of, home.

 

[Cryozombie]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-jks9199
-MT Moderator-

Sorry. I thought this area allowed a little more pepper on the posts so to speak. I know that is a general warning to everyone involved, my apology was for my part...

But since we are enforcing the rules here... Is not one of the rules of this section that the posters are required to cite specifics, names, dates, etc...

So shouldn't Heisaa have to tell who the super sekrit soke her husband trains under that was a student of Takamatsu? It's technically a violation for her not to... isn't it?

 

[Bester]

From the sticky

The base rules of MartialTalk are in effect with the following changes:
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This is the ONLY place on MT where these debates will be allowed.

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We reserve the right to amend these rules as needed to allow discussion without turning into an open-warfare flame pit.

 

[HeisaaReborn]

Thank you very much to all you for teaching me that everything that the rest of the Budo community has said is completely right about the WESTERN version of Bujinkan. I feel very very sorry for you as you will never know exactly what it is that you are supposed to be learning. If you can't name the eight gates and eighteen skills than you do not even know the basics - you are nothing but students of Taijutsu.

And no, I don't have to give a name that is the beauty of Ninjutsu. The fact that you don't want to pick up phone or send email lets me know that you prefer to be a nameless, faceless person on the internet who cries Wolf at anyone who is not Bujinkan. Since you do not have an idea of the difference between a Soke Menyko for a created style which anyone holding a Menyko Kaiden is authorized to give and a Nidan in Ninjutsu than I doubt very much there is anything you have to learn here. As far as his other certifications they ARE on the websites - he limited them to the highest and it is there in Tae Kwon Do. Also there is a full listing of his tournament results including his 2006 Silver Medal at Nationals in the elite division on the page listed biography. It was too extensive to put on the same page with the pics.

I leave you at peace since you think you have a better view of history; but you obviously have problems reading and writing. Here are some words from Hatsumi Soke himself since you have not even once gotten even his rank and title right:

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,serif]Others thoughts on attacking others via the Internet[/FONT]
​

“I am very unhappy with the Internet because it will cause people to be caught up in their brains and not use their minds for themselves. There is a lot of information on it and most of it is wrong but people don't care if it's wrong they are just happy get to all the information. This will teach people not to think for themselves”.

- Soke Masaaki Hatsumi

“People need to grow up and be adults and quit talking about each other and spend the time training instead of talking. No one is good enough to be criticizing anyone else”.
-Soke Masaaki Hatsumi

Budo,
​

 

[Cryozombie]

Hahahahaha.

You make me giggle.

Have fun playing ninja, kid.

 

[Sukerkin]

Ladies and gentlemen, this thread has recently seen some heated exchanges which have draw some cautions and warnings from the Moderating Staff.

It is advised that if it is not possible to intelligently examine the 'meat' of these matters then it is best to stop picking over them.

The Net can be a wonderful tool (sorry, Hatsumi Sensei but I dont fully agree with you ) but it is a two edged sword. Emotive posting serves only to cut at everyone who reads it.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Heissa,

Believe what you want do what you will I have no desire to engage in this discussion anymore really. My intent was never really about exposing frauds I only started the thread because the Mods said it was fraud busting which my manner was to translate what it says. The certifcates have been translated and given opinions to accuracy so I personally will let others see the points I have made and draw their own conclusions.

 

[Chris Parker]

I am simply stating my concurrance with JCA here.

Heisaa, your last post stated;

"Thank you very much to all you for teaching me that everything that the rest of the Budo community has said is completely right about the WESTERN version of Bujinkan. I feel very very sorry for you as you will never know exactly what it is that you are supposed to be learning. If you can't name the eight gates and eighteen skills than you do not even know the basics - you are nothing but students of Taijutsu.

And no, I don't have to give a name that is the beauty of Ninjutsu. The fact that you don't want to pick up phone or send email lets me know that you prefer to be a nameless, faceless person on the internet who cries Wolf at anyone who is not Bujinkan. Since you do not have an idea of the difference between a Soke Menyko for a created style which anyone holding a Menyko Kaiden is authorized to give and a Nidan in Ninjutsu than I doubt very much there is anything you have to learn here. As far as his other certifications they ARE on the websites - he limited them to the highest and it is there in Tae Kwon Do. Also there is a full listing of his tournament results including his 2006 Silver Medal at Nationals in the elite division on the page listed biography. It was too extensive to put on the same page with the pics.

I leave you at peace since you think you have a better view of history; but you obviously have problems reading and writing. Here are some words from Hatsumi Soke himself since you have not even once gotten even his rank and title right:"

Frankly, there is too much here that is blatently and obviously out of place for me to go through it all part by part yet again (although I am sorely tempted to do just that), with references to incorrect history (according to you), people not having knowledge of your terminology (despite no other ninjutsu organisation using it...), others not recognising titles and documents unheard of in any other source, and many other discrepancies between your imaginings of what ninjutsu is and what those who have spent decades learning know it to be.

There really is no point trying to assist any further. As JCA has done, I will allow my posts (and yours) to let others decide who actually knows what they're talking about, you or us. I've been down this pat for too long now.

 

[stephen]

Anyway, yes my husband's shidoshi was a student of Takamatsu-Sensei's,

I believe that 'shidoshi' is a term coined by Hatsumi Sensei. Therefore only students of Hatsumi Sensei and their students would use it. (There is a similar term 'shidosha' which I wouldn't be suprised if 'shidoshi' were patterened after, but they are clearly different.)

Please note, for example, that the Genbukan does not use the term. If it were originated from Takamatsu Sensei or present in the traditions previously I have a feeling they would.

Secondly in proper Ninjutsu culture a holder of Shidoshi-ho does not need answer to anyone who does not hold a Shidoshi-ho

Just want to also make a note to be sure that you realize that the '-ho' suffix in this context means something like 'junior'.

 

[Cryozombie]

I'm also curious, since your training unlike the Bujinkan is "real" and "traditional", and therefore as a woman you must be focusing on the traditional Kunoichi aspects of your training... when you are being taught to service men in order to extract information from them, do you only practice on your husband, or does he have you servicing the other guys in your dojo as well?

Cuz it would be pretty swell to have a servant around to serve wine, and wash clothes, prepare tea, and open the door... all in the name of "ninja training"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

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