Breaking objects with fists

[kwanjang]

I think everyone here has given a lot of valuable advice to take into consideration. But I do have one small question for everyone. When I went for my 1st Dan I was asked to do an immediate side kick on 2 1" pine boards and then to do a front roll and a hammer fist on a 2' patio block. Then on my 2nd Dan I was asked to do a front punch through 4 1" pine boards and then go into a horse stance and punch down through 2 full cinder blocks, So my question is How come I wasnt asked to do any breaking for my 3rd Dan? Is it because I already proved that I can perform the techniques?

Thanks for any replies.
kik

Greetings:
Various schools and orgs demand different things at the various levels we go through. IMHO, your punch through 4-1" boards is a more than I would ask, as it is truly hard on your knuckles and may cause later problems. This is especially so if the next break is a punch trough two cement blocks. IMHO this is asking a lot from (I assume) the same hand.

IMHO, breaks of three or more boards (or two or more 2" bricks without spacers) should be done with the appropriate tools that can handle that impact safely and without long term damage.

Conditioning (repeated impact with solid objects) is similarly hard on the hands. In fact, it is not even necessary if the right tools are chosen to break things (or defend yourself). Age and gender also has to be considered, because of Osteo problems that may be more prevalent for some groups. Considering one can get repetitive stress problems from banging away at a keyboard, hitting the makkiwara to condition hands is not a wise choice if you wish to avoid arthritis etc.

On the other hand, even at age 65, I can still break three cement blocks without spacers using a heavy hand palm strike. I stopped breaking with fingertips and thumbs long before that, because I could feel the stress was more than my body appreciated

To answer your question. Perhaps your instructors felt you might sustain injury for any of the reasons I mentioned, perhaps there is no further breaking required after 2nd dahn, it could be a number of reasons. Best way to get the right answer is to ask your Master.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michigan TKD:

Oh Yeah!! MY strikes are so hard the tree shakes BEFORE I hit it!!!

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[MichiganTKD]

Things that are fun to do with trees:

1. Hand practice
Palm strike, knife hand block/knife hand strike (palm up and palm down), 45-degree palm strike (from Kumgang), light punching

2. Kicking practice
Sliding kick (not hard contact, just practicing long stepping), roundhouse against leaves, jumping kicks against leaves

Haven't had the trees shake BEFORE I practice, but it's worth building up to that.
Trees are nature's focus pads and air shields!

 

[TKD USA]

My Instructor is the son of the owner of my Dojang and when he was testing for his 3rd Dan he had to do an Ax kick Thru five boards so I guess the braking doesn't always stop at 2nd Dan

 

[MichiganTKD]

Axe kick through 5 boards? That's a great way to hyperextend the knee. While the axe kick can inflict some major damage to the face if used properly, it's not designed to have that much power. I would never recommend more than two boards.
I've seen black belts breaking for 4th and 5th Dan testing BTW. Breaking can be included in any Black Belt test.

 

[glad2bhere]

I think its worthwhile to add an "amen" here. Unless somebody is actually trying to make some sort of statement about their breaking prowess there are some breaks that are probably not very well advised. An axe kick through 5 boards might be one of these. In the "stupid breaks" category I throw any breaks that involve breaking plate glass, setting the boards on fire before breaking or using concrete pieces conserved from old construction such as sidewalks. I know. "Who would do that", you ask? Trust me. There are folks who will do these things, and only God knows exactly why. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[kik]

I rmember a tournament back in 1998, I did an axe kick on 3-1" boards. I could hardly walk for a week my heel hurt so bad.

I have a buddy that went through 8-1" boards using a reverse side kick when we were doing a breaking competition for saint Judes hospital to raise money.

Broke his foot.

Kik

 

[TKD USA]

Wow, sorry for your friend but my instructor didn't seem hurt he actually did one more break after that and he walked away fine.

 

[Fortis]

Speed and accuracy.

 

[kwanjang]

I have a buddy that went through 8-1" boards using a reverse side kick when we were doing a breaking competition for saint Judes hospital to raise money.

Broke his foot.

Kik

Five boards is about the maximum a BIG man can hold safely. Your bud must have used some sort of holding device. It is easier to break with a solid holding device than it is to break with people as holders... people always seem to flinch or give a certain amount.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Rudy:

I tend to agree with your thought, but if people are going to hold the targets I strongly advised using those nifty finger shields. Whether or not they will absolutely eliminate any chance of injury I don't know, but you are certainly better off with whatever protection they give rather than none at all, yes?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[deadhand31]

Finger shields? I've tried using them once, but you can't get a solid grip on the boards. Besides, the pain from kicks to the fingers goes away after an hour or so, so it's no big deal. After several testings holding for a bunch of people who had almost no coordination, you get used to it. I only wish that we got to kick them back. Heheheh.

 

[Marginal]

Wooden board holders work wonders.

 

[kwanjang]

I have not had much luck with the finger protectors either. As far as mechanical holders, as one of the "grading masters" of WKSA, I have seen one too many people miss their kick and slice (or otherwise hurt) their foot on the apparatus.

I seldom ask for five board breaks, because the amount of power/speed needed to break them is usually too much impact on the wrists of the holders. I've seen my share of broken wrists too To use a mechanical holder, I always fear that they miss and damage their foot.

Breaking, IMHO, should not be the cause of permanent damage to a student. They trust us to make that decision for them. Black Belts are on their own, and they should know what their bodies can take. Personally, I like to see fewer boards but more skill. Giving only one chance to break the object also seems to improve focus FWIW, I never allow more than three tries.

 

[ParrotheadTPA]

I didn't find breaking with a fist extremely difficult. But based on what I am reading this would explain why my instructor was suprised to see me do my first break with a mid section punch.

I did this break with a board, not too long after moving from white to yellow belt.