Blocks

[Mekosho]

We went over a little "densho" in class last night, and I want to share with you something my sensei told us and see if anyone else had ever heard of this. While it makes alot of since, It was still the first time I had ever heard it...
The topic was blocks...he stated that way back when, back when martial arts was a life skill, something learned for survival in daily life, there really was nothing deemed as a block...meaning that it was a different way of doing things and reasonings etc. that made the martial artist strike and destroy anything in its path to save ones neck...and even though something might block an incoming kick or punch, it was meant mainly as a strike to cause pain or injury to the opponent, and that in old text, there really is not even a term for block!
He also went on to state (and this is his opinion) that he feels the "blocks" came from the martial arts becoming sport in the west, and in our sports, there is always an offense and a defense.. you catch the ball, run at me, I tackle you and its my turn to try till someone makes a miscalculation and the other scores...much like sport karate, I punch you block, you punch etc...now before anyone jumps on the whole "thats not really how it is in competition" bandwagon, please understand, that was just a very simple description..

 

[eyebeams]

In the ideal form of a technique, nothing you do should merely keep the conflict in a steady state. A block protects you but does not actually sieze the advantage in a fight.

However, many techniques are less than ideal when you actually *use* them, so the advantage of the structure in receiving techniques is that they do protect you and teach you to protect yourself without weakening your position. So when you can't employ the technique to its fullest, it is a "block." Sometimes you make a mistake or the opponent is too skilled to be effectively struck or guided, but it still serves a purpose.

That said, you must *train* receiving techniques as if they are techniques, not as theoretical techniques. That means you work the bag with "blocks," you try to use them proactively as well as in reaction and you treat them as you woul a throw or punch.

The core physical elements of defense are, however, in timing, posture and body movement. If you can get out of the way and your body and limbs are in the right place, there is little need for extra movement. Again, that's ideal, and often you need to put a technique out there to bridge to decisive action.

 

[Bill Lear]

Kenpo is a combination of Ancient fighting techniques and modern Scientific Principles, an unending flow of motion, a Force which can overwhelm any attacker. Every move creates a specific reaction in your opponent. Every reaction leads you to your next move. Every strike is a block. Every block is a strike. Each move flows into the next. This Logical and Sequential flow of Action is the Essence of Kenpo. Kenpo can be the most lethal of the Martial Arts. To control the power of Kenpo you must first control yourself. Train your spirit as you train your body; developing inner strength, balance and harmony as you learn. A Master of Kenpo is more than an expert in Karate, he is a Martial Artist. He is a Master of himself.

-excerpted from The Perfect Weapon.

Mekosho,

I think you might be on to something when describing blocks and their application in "sport karate". However, in nearly every Kenpo school I've been in almost all of the instructors advocated the use of a block to injure your opponent in self-defense situations.

:idunno:

 

[KenpoTex]

"blocks are strikes, strikes are blocks, and checks can be strikes..." Gotta love kenpo, everything hurts

I definately agree with the idea that hard blocks are weapons as opposed to mere defensive maneuvers (attack the attacking weapon). If not getting hit is the sole purpose then I'd rather parry, or wedge/jam, and/or use angles. Block can be very effective as strikes. I'm sure we've all had bruises and sore-spots from catching a block in the wrong place. I got tagged last night with a block to the outside of my forearm that completely stunned my arm. (and I have the goose-egg and bruise to prove it ).

 

[lonekimono10]

"blocks are strikes, strikes are blocks, and checks can be strikes..." Gotta love kenpo, everything hurts

I definately agree with the idea that hard blocks are weapons as opposed to mere defensive maneuvers (attack the attacking weapon). If not getting hit is the sole purpose then I'd rather parry, or wedge/jam, and/or use angles. Block can be very effective as strikes. I'm sure we've all had bruises and sore-spots from catching a block in the wrong place. I got tagged last night with a block to the outside of my forearm that completely stunned my arm. (and I have the goose-egg and bruise to prove it ).

hey tex you beat me to the punch, took the words right out of my mouth

 

[OrangeLeopard]

A good example of painful blocks is this one kid i spar with sometimes who does hungar. He conditions and sharpens his wrists, enough so one time my friends were fighitng him two on one with a shinais (kendo sticks) in freestyle long sword fighting and he actually blocked a full overhead blow with his wrist. When you throw a punch at hiim and he blocks it with his wrist, it feels like made a big mistake trying to hit him, and then theres his fists...

 

[Simon Curran]

A good example of painful blocks is this one kid i spar with sometimes who does hungar. He conditions and sharpens his wrists, enough so one time my friends were fighitng him two on one with a shinais (kendo sticks) in freestyle long sword fighting and he actually blocked a full overhead blow with his wrist. When you throw a punch at hiim and he blocks it with his wrist, it feels like made a big mistake trying to hit him, and then theres his fists...

I was thinking something similar about my instructor, whose background is in Wing Tsun and Seven Star Mantis, blocking drills with him hurt...

 

[rmcpeek]

In my early days, I was always accused by my Instructor of blocking too much with my face and not enough with my arms!!

 

[The Kai]

There has always been blocks in Karate. Hard Blocks to hurt, Soft Blocks to protect yourself. If during the course of a fight or sparring match you attempt to strike and miss, do you bring your hands back to protect your face? Thats a Block! Do you use a Plam Check to Block your ribs. The idea that blocking orginatedt with sport karate is kinda backward. In fact, given the way the points game goes it could be arguing blocking has been underapprieciated!


Of course there is the idea that old time karate men threw bombs at each other till one connected!

 

[dsp921]

I was taught that there are no blocks, everything is a strike.

 

[Seabrook]

We went over a little "densho" in class last night, and I want to share with you something my sensei told us and see if anyone else had ever heard of this. While it makes alot of since, It was still the first time I had ever heard it...
The topic was blocks...he stated that way back when, back when martial arts was a life skill, something learned for survival in daily life, there really was nothing deemed as a block...meaning that it was a different way of doing things and reasonings etc. that made the martial artist strike and destroy anything in its path to save ones neck...and even though something might block an incoming kick or punch, it was meant mainly as a strike to cause pain or injury to the opponent, and that in old text, there really is not even a term for block!
He also went on to state (and this is his opinion) that he feels the "blocks" came from the martial arts becoming sport in the west, and in our sports, there is always an offense and a defense.. you catch the ball, run at me, I tackle you and its my turn to try till someone makes a miscalculation and the other scores...much like sport karate, I punch you block, you punch etc...now before anyone jumps on the whole "thats not really how it is in competition" bandwagon, please understand, that was just a very simple description..

I would agree with most of this. For example, one could argue that a downward block against a hard kick is dangerous because one typically blocks with the smalll and weak ulnar bone and is not effective against very low kicks. A better application for the motion of a downward block would be a technique similar to Crossing Talon (right cross-wrist grab to our right wrist). In defense, we counter-grab his wrist and do a left hand knuckle rub onto the back of the opponent's elbow, hence the exact motion of what a downward block would like in the air.

A vertical outward block could be used for the same attack as Lone Kimono (left hand grab and the opponent may be ready to punch you with his free right hand). In defense, we could pin the opponent's hand with our right hand, and then strike the top of his forearm with your left fist. As his head comes forward, immediately strike him under the jaw with your left fist. This would replicate the motion of a vertical outward block.

Even in a technique like Shield and Mace, the "vertical outward block" is more of a guide than a block since you are borrowing the attacker's force.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Benjp]

My instructor has said similar things.

In Kosho, first comes the escape, then the avoid. The avoidance motion keeps your opponent from striking you. The "blocks" are for manipulation, or tactile reference and can be considered strikes. Very different from the blocking techniques of traditional karate.

 

[The Kai]

Yes Blocks can make a great counter to a grab, after all what's more staic then a grab. Given the frozen nature of how most grabs happen in a dojo, you can make a lot of stuff work off a grab

 

[The Kai]

My instructor has said similar things.

In Kosho, first comes the escape, then the avoid. The avoidance motion keeps your opponent from striking you. The "blocks" are for manipulation, or tactile reference and can be considered strikes. Very different from the blocking techniques of traditional karate.

When you work Waza exclusively, especially working against exaggrated motions, and haymakers-it becomes easier and easier to reset your frame of reference! I guess that is why Grandmaster insists that we spar!!

Hard Block = Strike
Parries = Protecting
Obstructions = Protecting
Guard = Protecting
Evasions = protecting

So not all blocks are strikes.
In the course of a fight hard blocks are the most difficult to apply

 

[rmcrobertson]

Just to throw a little something into the stone soup...

1. In American kenpo, upward blocks are deflecting blocks anyway. And if you look at the early teachniques against kicks (Intellectual Departure, Deflecting Hammer, Thrusting Salute), none of them use a "force on force," block. They all attack the leg at an angle, and if they strike, they go after meat, not bone...yes, even Thrusting Salute, in which, a) what really protects you from the kick is stepping back and a bit off-line, b) the primary block is the right inward downward block. And if you go past the basic techniques, I can't think of ANY that use a force-on-force downward block, what with legs being bigger than arms.

2. Inward blocks especially are a nice way of discouraging an attacker from going any further. For example, in Delayed Sword (assuming that you havent already run away or talked yourself out of it), blocking the living hell out of the grabbing arm is a lot better than having to kick them, let alone strike their neck...and regardless of what somebody's studied or how tough they are, that block (done well, anyway) will have an effect; it may not be enough of an effect, which is why there's more to the technique.

 

[Seabrook]

Just to throw a little something into the stone soup...

1. In American kenpo, upward blocks are deflecting blocks anyway. And if you look at the early teachniques against kicks (Intellectual Departure, Deflecting Hammer, Thrusting Salute), none of them use a "force on force," block. They all attack the leg at an angle, and if they strike, they go after meat, not bone...yes, even Thrusting Salute, in which, a) what really protects you from the kick is stepping back and a bit off-line, b) the primary block is the right inward downward block. And if you go past the basic techniques, I can't think of ANY that use a force-on-force downward block, what with legs being bigger than arms.

Nicely put Robert... very true of American Kenpo.

This runs in stark contrast to what I see a lot of traditional Japanese/Okinawan styles teaching and demonstrating.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[eyebeams]

Nevertheless, it's one thing to *talk* about receiving techniques, and another thing to train them as if they were part of a proactive set of tools. Even if they're not blocks, if you train them like blocks you will use them like blocks.

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. The system of American kenpo is so laid out as to teach, and then to deconstruct, the tradition-imposed (at least in Japanese and Okinawan arts) binary opposition artificially separating a block and a strike.

2. It is important to remember that there is a difference between the ideal phase with which nearly all beginners must begin kenpo, and the developed stages to which we are all trying to move. For example, one teaches a block as just a block so that a beginner can learn how to do a basic block, how to keep their hand closed when they hit something, how to connect their hand and their stance, etc.

3. The block should be taught as a block. The "advanced," applications need to come later, which is what, "sophisticated basics," is all about.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I disagree, you never have to use the term block when teaching the motion. Block is an ethical term for striking. Even a full on round house kick to the head can be easily "checked" by understanding that stepping off the line of attack is every bit offensive as defensive that combined with multiple points of contact on the incoming leg [think hitting him with the whole truck] positions you for a bloody offensive. I agree that the whole blocking idea is new but I think it came about as a result pushing the defensive aspect to American parents over the years.
Sean

 

[The Kai]

You are still Blocking the Roundhouse Kick, albeit somewhat passively (and calling it a check) with a more or less simultaneous strike (targeting the leg)


Sophistacted basics are the application of one basic technique to have two or more applicationa, or using the basics in a novel or unorthodox way
Block is still block regsrdless of the speed of trasition into your counter strike