Best disarm from a #4 strike?

[trevorama]

I've seen a lot of stick disarms set up from the position of just having blocked a #3 strike (stick to stick). But what's the best (i.e. easiest, quickest, most reliable) way to disarm or subdue an opponent after blocking a #4 strike?

Bonus points if anyone can point me to a video clip of such a disarm or technique.

 

[Guro Harold]

I've seen a lot of stick disarms set up from the position of just having blocked a #3 strike (stick to stick). But what's the best (i.e. easiest, quickest, most reliable) way to disarm or subdue an opponent after blocking a #4 strike?

Bonus points if anyone can point me to a video clip of such a disarm or technique.

Knocking da heck out of the hand, wrist, or forearm that's coming to you!

 

[Hand Sword]

 

[Andrew Green]

Knocking da heck out of the hand, wrist, or forearm that's coming to you!

I'll agree to that

When things go live, fancy stuff fails. Stick to the simplist disarms, best of which is a stick across the knuckles or wrist

 

[MJS]

I've seen a lot of stick disarms set up from the position of just having blocked a #3 strike (stick to stick). But what's the best (i.e. easiest, quickest, most reliable) way to disarm or subdue an opponent after blocking a #4 strike?

Bonus points if anyone can point me to a video clip of such a disarm or technique.

A #4 or #2 disarm or as Harold suggested, just attack the incoming strike!

Mike

 

[trevorama]

A #4 or #2 disarm or as Harold suggested, just attack the incoming strike!

True enough -- getting medieval on the incoming strike is the best approach, but what if that's not good enough? What if the the first strike isn't sufficient to make the opponent regret waking up that day? Surely there's a standard way to disarm or at least gain the upper hand on someone from this advantageous position.

What is a #4 or #2 disarm? Could you please explain it to me or point me to an on-line resource that can?

 

[Mcura]

Fortunately, Prof. Presas wrote about disarms against the 2, 4, 7, and 8 strikes in his little yellow book, Modern Arnis.

Disarm Against Strike #2:
1. As your opponent attempts a high backhand strike to your head, sidestep to your left as you execute an outside block with your stick while keeping your left hand ready to scoop inside your opponent's right forearm.
2. Wind your left arm quickly in a clockwise direction (6 o'clock to 12 o'clock) until his stick is pressing against your left forearm and his right wrist is pinned under your left wrist.
3. Continuing the pressure will force him to release his stick, and will keep your opponent open for a counterstrike.

Disarm Against Strike #4:
1. As your opponent attempts a high backhand strike to your right side, sidestep to your left as you execute an outside block with your stick.
2. While keeping your left hand on his right wrist, quickly force your stick over and underneath your opponent's stick, raising his right wrist up until your stick and your left hand are both pressing against the back of his wrist.
3. Force your opponent down with strong pressure until he lets go.

Disarm Against Strike #7:
1. As your opponent attempts a backhand thrust to the body, sidestep to your left as you execute a high outside block.
2. Simultaneously, reach your left hand under his right wrist and draw it quickly back (bending it at the elbow) as you press against his stick in the opposite direction with your stick.
3. His hold will be broken. Use your whole body, from your feet through your hips and chest, and into your arm, to power the disarm.

Disarm against Strike #8:
1. As your opponent attempts a low backhand strike to your right side, sidestep to your left and execute a low outside block.
2. Pressing down with your stick, step in and force your right wrist inside his right arm (with the butt end of the stick) and wind your arm upward in a clockwise circle (6 o'clock to 12 o'clock), trapping his right wrist and stick against your stick and right hand.
3. Use your left hand to hold his stick against your own.
4. Pivot quickly to your right to bend his right wrist backward, forcing him to let go. Use your whole body, not just your arm strength.

I've observed that the backhand blows to your right side, head, and knee aren't as strong as the forehand blows. This works to your advantage, as you'll be meeting a comparatively weak blow with your stronger block. All the disarms start with stepping to the left, and executing an outside block. With the exception of the Disarm Against #7, all the motions with the Live (left) Hand are in a clockwise motion. Be sure not to rush the disarm. Make sure you're safe first with the block and sidestep to the left. And watch out for the flying sticks.

 

[MJS]

True enough -- getting medieval on the incoming strike is the best approach, but what if that's not good enough? What if the the first strike isn't sufficient to make the opponent regret waking up that day? Surely there's a standard way to disarm or at least gain the upper hand on someone from this advantageous position.

Yes, thats true, we shouldn't assume that our hit is going to stop the person. This is why its important to follow up with strikes, use our live hand to assist us, and use our footwork. From that initial strike, we can use our other methods of striking, such as abanico, figure 8 movements, etc. Keep in mind, that we may not get the disarm immediately, due to the quickness and power of the strike, so we may have to use our other tools.

What is a #4 or #2 disarm? Could you please explain it to me or point me to an on-line resource that can?

I was all set to type out a reply, but thanks to Mcura, it looks like he did a fine job with that!!:ultracool

Mike

 

[Guro Harold]

True enough -- getting medieval on the incoming strike is the best approach, but what if that's not good enough? What if the the first strike isn't sufficient to make the opponent regret waking up that day? Surely there's a standard way to disarm or at least gain the upper hand on someone from this advantageous position.

What is a #4 or #2 disarm? Could you please explain it to me or point me to an on-line resource that can?

From a curriculum perspective, the disarms that MCura has graciously provided should be considered as the starting point for understanding the mechanics of disarms. However, please note that most Modern Arnis disarms can be executed at any translated angle.

Also, Modern Arnis disarms themselves are executed mainly in the medio range, therefore they draw the opponent into your space. As a result the opponent could counter the disarm or bliindside you. Therefore, the concepts of strategy and occupying all the weapons of the opponent has to be considered.

With this in mind, one of the strategies that can be used that I was referring to is called actually, "Defanging the Snake". It's the most realistic and practical disarm and the more plausible one to execute without getting your head knocked off.

Also, even if the opponent does not drop the weapon, the technique can be used to diminish the capabilities of the opponent and setup the next technique.

So, using figure eight concept as example, you could strike the hand of the incoming #1 strike, cover the distance, parry with a #2/#4 block, then immediately execute the #4 snake disarm.

But again, that is based on many factors that are constant flux. There is a statement that I have heard before that best describes disarms... "Disarms are accidental or incidental at best."

This is another great discussion!!!

 

[Guro Harold]

I was all set to type out a reply, but thanks to Mcura, it looks like he did a fine job with that!!:ultracool

Mike

Agreed!

 

[trevorama]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the quick and great responses. I especially appreciate Mcura's initial thorough response. It was exactly what I was looking for. Palusut and MJS, thank you for the refinements.

Modern Arnis rules!

 

[HKphooey]

IMO...Until one is skilled in arnis, the standard #4 disarm tends to leave the opponent's other arm free for attack (because of the disarming we are actually putting him/her in a better position). I like to step to the outside while parying the attacker'a arm with my left hand(staying to the outside, away from risk from the other arm). Check with the right, controlling the arm and stick. Then left backfist to the face (and a left inner arch kick to the skin if needed).

 

[Guro Harold]

IMO...Until one is skilled in arnis, the standard #4 disarm tends to leave the opponent's other arm free for attack (because of the disarming we are actually putting him/her in a better position). I like to step to the outside while parying the attacker'a arm with my left hand(staying to the outside, away from risk from the other arm). Check with the right, controlling the arm and stick. Then left backfist to the face (and a left inner arch kick to the skin if needed).

True!!!

Also, this is another disarm that ties up both hands while executing it. That is dangerous within itself.

A cool thing about the #4 disarms are the followups which are on the blackbelt series from what I remember. Also, you can use it to play pool if you have to with the opponent's head being the cue ball.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Knocking da heck out of the hand, wrist, or forearm that's coming to you!

That is the number one disarm in my book!

 

[modarnis]

IMO...Until one is skilled in arnis, the standard #4 disarm tends to leave the opponent's other arm free for attack (because of the disarming we are actually putting him/her in a better position). I like to step to the outside while parying the attacker'a arm with my left hand(staying to the outside, away from risk from the other arm). Check with the right, controlling the arm and stick. Then left backfist to the face (and a left inner arch kick to the skin if needed).

I agree that the #4 is a tricky approach for a beginner. Myself, the disarms are gravy, only after the meat and potatoes of moving my feet, not getting hit, controlling position, counterstriking/neutralizing the opponent. Then, disarming is great. It does need to enter the equation in the proper place.

Harold hits the mnail on the head that impact disarm is preferred. The initial block should also serve as an attack to the attacking weapon

THe approach from the basic #2 disarm facilitates much of that against that side of the body. It also teaches the 'roll to the bicep' pass/controil that Professor was fond of.

Sorry for the random, late in the discussion thoughts. Its been a long week at work

 

[trevorama]

THe approach from the basic #2 disarm facilitates much of that against that side of the body. It also teaches the 'roll to the bicep' pass/controil that Professor was fond of.

Sorry for the random, late in the discussion thoughts. Its been a long week at work

Hey better late than never. Thanks for your two bits. It reinforces the best approach to disarms in general. Question for you: The "roll to bicep" pass/control that you spoke of - Is this an overhook on the opponent's arm with the stick arm, or is this a pass/underhook with the live hand, or something else entirely?

 

[modarnis]

Just like the number 2 basic disarm, it is a pass with the live hand. It has value in stick, knife, and even espada y daga practice

 

[trevorama]

That's what I thought. Thank you.

 

[Inverse Falcon]

Fortunately, Prof. Presas wrote about disarms against the 2, 4, 7, and 8 strikes in his little yellow book, Modern Arnis.

Disarm Against Strike #2:
1. As your opponent attempts a high backhand strike to your head, sidestep to your left as you execute an outside block with your stick while keeping your left hand ready to scoop inside your opponent's right forearm.
2. Wind your left arm quickly in a clockwise direction (6 o'clock to 12 o'clock) until his stick is pressing against your left forearm and his right wrist is pinned under your left wrist.
3. Continuing the pressure will force him to release his stick, and will keep your opponent open for a counterstrike.

Disarm Against Strike #4:
1. As your opponent attempts a high backhand strike to your right side, sidestep to your left as you execute an outside block with your stick.
2. While keeping your left hand on his right wrist, quickly force your stick over and underneath your opponent's stick, raising his right wrist up until your stick and your left hand are both pressing against the back of his wrist.
3. Force your opponent down with strong pressure until he lets go.

These are very similar to how I was taught. I'm not sure if these are new for some, or if I'm just suggesting techniques most people know, as these were taught to me as basic disarms:

Strike #2 disarm:

#1 and 2: Similar to Mcura up to step 2, but instead of pinning his wrist, you pin his elbow and press down with your palm and leverage your body weight. Rather than having his stick pressing down on your forearm, try to get the bottom part of your forearm underneath his wrist so your forearms are intertwined, with his arm twisted so his elbow is facing up and pinned by your palm and his grip is facing up, stick pointing horizontally away from you. This position should be an armlock, so leverage your weight appropriately.
3. Come down on his tricep with the butt of your stick. (if unarmed, use your right elbow instead)
4. Still maintaining the arm lock, reach over and grab the end of his stick, pulling it free from his weak grasp.

Strike #4 disarm:

1-3 Same as the above disarm.
4. Bring the stick horizontal and grip the end with your other hand, keeping him in the arm lock with your stick locking on his elbow. (if unarmed, use your right forearm, gripping your right wrist with your left hand and bearing down to get the right leverage. I actually find this easier to do than with the stick)
5a. (Optional) Leverage your weight to break his arm at his elbow.
5b. Pull back sharply along his arm. If you're in the right position, your arm and stick (or both arms, if without the stick) should strip his stick from his hand.

These are both a little slower than your #2, but I do love that arm lock and break.

I also know your version of the #4 disarm, it's one of my favorites.

 

[trevorama]

Great additions Inverse Falcon! I was familiar with your #4 variation, but your #2 variation was new to me and I look forward to trying it out. Thanks very much for posting those.