Banda Y Banda

[Rich Parsons]

Banda Y Banda:

Please see Striking 1 - 12

As I was taught, Banda Y Banda is a side to side motion. The right hand can cross over the left or the left hand can cross over the right.

Start with both hands out palms up and bring them across you in a horizontal fashion for strikes. i.e. a Number 3 strike. Rotate the wrists so now the palms are down, and then strike back. i.e. Number 4 stike.

Our club uses this to teach flowing techniques where the feeder strikes the patter 1, 2, 9, & 8 and then repeats. Once the person practicing Banda Y Banda becomes more familiar with the technique and timing, they then can insert other techniques into the drill such as Disarms


Thoughts, comments, issues?

Do you teach this special strike?

If so, then how?

Thank You for your discussion.
:asian:

 

[Mark Lynn]

I heard (I think from the Professor) that the term/name Banda y Banda refers to the motion of the tall grass in the fields as it is blowing in the wind. Back and forth back and forth.

Anybody hear a similar/same descrition of the term/name? The reason I ask is banda y banda a back and forth motion on the horizontal only (such as the desription refers to) or is it a back and forth motion on any line such as the diagonal lines? Say you strike a high forehand (#1) and then reverse the motion cutting back on the same diagonal line.

Is the crossada motion (opening and closing the X) considered a Banda y Banda type of technique? Because the way I practiced/learned the Banda y Banda ws off of the block check and counter drill format.

Should Banda y banda be capitialized as a proper name or same letters? I'm so confused :idunno:

Mark

 

[DoxN4cer]

In my interpretation, banda y banda is a lead-in to cruzada and what MA folks call "the flow". Payong and pluma (umbella block and slant block) are also lead-ins to cruzada. If you tie all of that stuff in, you get cruzada. The main difference is how the live hand is employed, and whether ot not you have a weapon occupying your live hand.


Tim Kashino

 

[Dan Anderson]

banda y banda = side by side.

Dan Anderson

 

[Rich Parsons]

banda y banda = side by side.

Dan Anderson

So what you are saying there Dan, is that I misspelled it in the first post?

I apologize for that.
:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

El Rikki,

Reference for the spelling is in the original pink book, Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art "Stick Fighting" page 153.

the Big Daddy :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

El Rikki,

Reference for the spelling is in the original pink book, Modern Arnis Philippine Martial Art "Stick Fighting" page 153.

the Big Daddy :asian:

Yes it is. I just forgot to check my references as 12:12 AM

 

[Cruentus]

I teach the special strikes like banda y banda as if they are blade (sword) techniqes first, as that is their origin. Then, they learn to translate the concept to other mediums.

:asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

What I like about Hock's Archipelago and Filipino Combatives system is that he shows that Banda Y Banda can be used diagonally for strike angles 1, 2, 8, and 9, while 3, 4, 10 and 11 can be used on the horizontal plane, and 12 can be used for the straight vertical plane.

Playing around with them, I noticed some interesting progressions:

(Note: These are from a Right-handed perspective - Left is translatable.)
(Note: Unless otherwise noted, these strikes use a wrist turn.)

Strike 1 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes an umbrella/payong block or "nasty" punyo follow-up.

Strike 2 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes a slant/payong or upper-cut strike.

Strikes (3 - 4), (10 - 11) - Can be wrist turning execution or static wrist. If a static wrist is used, it introduces sungkitis on the return path. This technique is used in other systems to slide off a power block and then follow up with a poke.

Strike 8 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces rompida.

Strike 9 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces arco.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[arnisador]

Hey, that's an interesting way to view it!

 

[lhommedieu]

I heard (I think from the Professor) that the term/name Banda y Banda refers to the motion of the tall grass in the fields as it is blowing in the wind. Back and forth back and forth.

Anybody hear a similar/same descrition of the term/name? The reason I ask is banda y banda a back and forth motion on the horizontal only (such as the desription refers to) or is it a back and forth motion on any line such as the diagonal lines? Say you strike a high forehand (#1) and then reverse the motion cutting back on the same diagonal line.

I was taught (not in Modern Arnis but in San Miguel Eskrima) that "banda" refers to a diagonal backhand downward strike that goes all the way (or almost all of the way) down to the floor, and then returns back on the same diagonal line as an upward forehand diagonal strike. It's done very quickly, as if the first strike "bounces" off the floor and returns back the way it came.

It's interesting to note that both (MA and SME) uses of the term "banda" carry the connotation that the strike has a lively, elastic quality.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[DoxN4cer]

What I like about Hock's Archipelago and Filipino Combatives system is that he shows that Banda Y Banda can be used diagonally for strike angles 1, 2, 8, and 9, while 3, 4, 10 and 11 can be used on the horizontal plane, and 12 can be used for the straight vertical plane.

Playing around with them, I noticed some interesting progressions:

(Note: These are from a Right-handed perspective - Left is translatable.)
(Note: Unless otherwise noted, these strikes use a wrist turn.)

Strike 1 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes an umbrella/payong block or "nasty" punyo follow-up.

Strike 2 - Diagonal down, return strike becomes a slant/payong or upper-cut strike.

Strikes (3 - 4), (10 - 11) - Can be wrist turning execution or static wrist. If a static wrist is used, it introduces sungkitis on the return path. This technique is used in other systems to slide off a power block and then follow up with a poke.

Strike 8 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces rompida.

Strike 9 - Diagonal up with return path strike introduces arco.

Best regards,

Palusut

Put another stick or a knife in your hand and you have Cruzada.

Tim

 

[Guro Harold]

Put another stick or a knife in your hand and you have Cruzada.

Tim

Hi Tim,

I agree with you 100%. To me it seems that banda y banda is a base for alot of the more advanced techniques. A couple of students and myself were playing with the doublestick hubad drill with cruzada action last night.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[loki09789]

So which came first: Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada? Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA? I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.

 

[Guro Harold]

So which came first: Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada? Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA? I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.

Hi Paul,

That's a good question. I don't have the history to answer it myself.

It is interesting. however, that by adding the checking hand or opposing weapon, that the concept of double-action is introduced as well. Since double-action is more complicated than single-action, it seems that the combination itself leads to a progression.

Also, I learned that crossada/crossada is not just the opposing double-action technique but also a stationary block with the opposing sticks or the espada Y daga crossed. Tuhon Ray Dionaldo demonstrated some techiques the first seminar that I met him at a few years ago.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[DoxN4cer]

So which came first: Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada? Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA? I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.

That's like asking "which came first, the chicken of the egg?" However, the logical teaching progression in my mind would be banda y banda... flow drill... cruzada. That would show the more simple movements before the more adavnced material... you know, crawl-walk-run. Does that clarify it a little?

Palusut, cruzada can be a jamming type "X" block followed by a pass and entry as well (... but please don't stay stationary YIKES!!!). That's where the connection is made between b-y-b, flow and cruzada.

Tim Kashino

 

[Guro Harold]

That's like asking "which came first, the chicken of the egg?" However, the logical teaching progression in my mind would be banda y banda... flow drill... cruzada. That would show the more simple movements before the more adavnced material... you know, crawl-walk-run. Does that clarify it a little?

Palusut, cruzada can be a jamming type "X" block followed by a pass and entry as well (... but please don't stay stationary YIKES!!!). That's where the connection is made between b-y-b, flow and cruzada.

Tim Kashino

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your concern, however, for clarification, my use of the word "stationary" did not mean a constant state of being, it actually meant for only the instantaneous moment of the block itself.

I only mentioned this technique only as a side note to cruzada and with no relationship with the flowing attributes of banda Y banda.


Respectfully,

Palusut :asian:

 

[Mark Lynn]

So which came first: Banda Y Banda or Crossada/Cruzada? Was Flow the "laboratory" basic that eventually would lead to the introduction of the others in MA? I know that MA has conceptual "flow" which could also be called "fluidity" of mind and body while in motion, so I guess I am really asking about the application motions and not the philosophy here.

Hi Paul

Could it be that they came seperate with no connection between them until later.

GM Remy told me that he would travel around and fight other escrima players (teachers) from this area or that and take the esscence of their style and incorperate it into his own. Could this not be two movements (b y b and crossada) of two different styles that share some same movements during the course of their execution.

For instance there is the abaniko system, the up and down system, etc. etc. and I think that the crossada and the b y b were styles of play as well. After GM Remy incorperated them into MA now we on the other end say hey if we do this or that or insert this or that then we have this technique. I mean the up and down method is just b y b on it's side without the wrist twist, or Rompedia done horizontally instead of vertically.

(My wife came in and discussed the family resposnibilities of the day, totally braking my concentration on the point I was trying to make.)

The banda y banda movement is common in many systems, the crossada is common in many systems, to me they are seperate, taught as seperate techniques. No disrespect intended and maybe I'm reading to much into the way the thread is going. If so I apologize.
Mark

 

[Guro Harold]

The banda y banda movement is common in many systems, the crossada is common in many systems, to me they are seperate, taught as seperate techniques. No disrespect intended and maybe I'm reading to much into the way the thread is going. If so I apologize.
Mark

Hi Mark,

I can see your point also if one grouped banda Y banda and the up and down movements as crossada/scissors because of the weapons crossing.

From what I have heard true crossada is considered as a seperate sub-system. It appeared to me that the Professor presented the subsystems as striking styles and presented techniques based on the striking styles.

Best regards,

Palusut

PS Mark, if you are Mark A. and you attended the Ring of Fire this year, your good reputation has preceeded you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

From what I have heard true crossada is considered as a seperate sub-system. It appeared to me that the Professor presented the subsystems as striking styles and presented techniques based on the striking styles.

I would have to agree with this statment.
:asian: