Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
This thread has now entered the gaseous phase of discourse.
Athenic vs Spartan
- Thread starter Touch Of Death
- Start date
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Which is in this case a good thing.
More to the point, the problem lies in the insistence upon impsing simple binary oppositions upon complex structures. For example, the whole, "traditional," vs. "evolutionary," nonsense.
More to the point, the problem lies in the insistence upon impsing simple binary oppositions upon complex structures. For example, the whole, "traditional," vs. "evolutionary," nonsense.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #23
Robert,
The very gods they worshiped were one or the other for god sake. Athena was the goddess of warcraft while Aries was the god of war. Why two for the same thing? you might ask. Because one was traditional and the other evolutionary. It was two ways of veiwing the same thing. To deny that people and societies were of two minds on just about every subject is to deny human nature. Change is dangerous. Some fear it, some strive for it, weather you want to admit it, it was happenig then and it is happenig now. Stop trying to tell me the entire society thought only one way; because, I ain't buying it.
Sean
The very gods they worshiped were one or the other for god sake. Athena was the goddess of warcraft while Aries was the god of war. Why two for the same thing? you might ask. Because one was traditional and the other evolutionary. It was two ways of veiwing the same thing. To deny that people and societies were of two minds on just about every subject is to deny human nature. Change is dangerous. Some fear it, some strive for it, weather you want to admit it, it was happenig then and it is happenig now. Stop trying to tell me the entire society thought only one way; because, I ain't buying it.
Sean
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
Kirk,
Since you happen to be one of "those people" would you mind letting me in on when I ever spoke of Shadow boxing or called anything useless. You put it out there as fact, prove it. If you are not able to provide a single example that would be why you are one of "those people". The word "unusefull" doesn't count because they are, in fact, two different concepts. I'm waiting...
Sean
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
"There are only two kinds of people in the world--those who think there are only two kinds of people in the world, and those who don't."
No, it is not as simple as the Athenians worshipped Athena, while the Spartans worshipped ol' Aries.
And even in yang and yin, if you look at the symbol, there's a little of the opposite in each.
Of course, there is the dialectical understanding of culture and historical development, but that's different.
Moreover--I say again--kenpo does not simply divide into trad and rad, however pleasing it might be for us to put overselves on one side or t'other.
The very term "radical," implies both a return to roots and a dissection of origins, coupled with sweeping change.
No, it is not as simple as the Athenians worshipped Athena, while the Spartans worshipped ol' Aries.
And even in yang and yin, if you look at the symbol, there's a little of the opposite in each.
Of course, there is the dialectical understanding of culture and historical development, but that's different.
Moreover--I say again--kenpo does not simply divide into trad and rad, however pleasing it might be for us to put overselves on one side or t'other.
The very term "radical," implies both a return to roots and a dissection of origins, coupled with sweeping change.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #26
Are you forgetting the volkish ramblings of Hittler, The Shinto of Japan, or the Islamic fundamentalism of (you name it). These are examples of traditionalism with teeth. You know they teach this crap in school. I'm not saying we're not dealing in shades of grey but it is the idealism that starts wars. Now I suppose you will say the wars we fight are not idealistic. Please proceed; because, this ought to be good.
K
Kirk
Guest
Nah.
Sure ... just as soon as you prove that techniques are just "rigid
patterns" that in no way teach sponteneity. And that if they were
to teach such things, that it'd be "magic". Or, that "the jab jab
that "delayed sword" and "sword of destruction" teach are
muddled by the machinations of kicking". Or that Dan didn't read
the precious book?
I don't want to waste my time with you looking up the posts that
you use to troll on this (and other) board. I may have lumped
you in with the others that feel it's their mission to save kenpoists
from themselves, and try and talk them into studying MMA and
grappling, and ordinarily I'd apologize for lumping you in with
"those people" .. but ... I don't apologize to people who 1) rarely
have anything postitive to say 2) jump to an attack the second
someone disagrees with them 3) acts like a troll.
Keep waiting. You really think that you're going to be able to
stop telling people the same crap you've been spewing since you
got here? I'd like to see that! So you didn't call shadow boxing
and forms useless, you called them "unusefull" .. fine .. you got
me.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Ectually, Sean, it's idealism to claim that everything fits into two abstract categories presumed to be integral (and indeed prefatory) to all human action.
I'm a materialist. That means: I tend to look at the actual complexity of history, culture, human action, etc...rather than claim that there is some repetitive cyclic pattern in human affairs...
Sorry if I'm being a bit snooty...we all have our ground states, and I just tried a Gibson cocktail for the first time ever...
And as for overlooking the militarism based upon idealisms...not hardly. I can't remember how many times I've brought up good ol' Donn Draeger (may he sleep in peace!) and his analyses of the role that Shinto and Buddhism played in Japanese fascism...
I'm a materialist. That means: I tend to look at the actual complexity of history, culture, human action, etc...rather than claim that there is some repetitive cyclic pattern in human affairs...
Sorry if I'm being a bit snooty...we all have our ground states, and I just tried a Gibson cocktail for the first time ever...
And as for overlooking the militarism based upon idealisms...not hardly. I can't remember how many times I've brought up good ol' Donn Draeger (may he sleep in peace!) and his analyses of the role that Shinto and Buddhism played in Japanese fascism...
