At what point should you refuse or stop teaching someone martial arts?

[Kung Fu Wang]

No free lunch? Sure there is, ...

Old Chinese saying said, "It's easier to learn from a friend. It's harder to learn from a teacher."

There are free lunch among friends. It's difficult to get free lunch from your teacher.

 

[Flying Crane]

Easier to make a friend if you aren’t miserly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The teacher showed up with little announcement. Had he mentioned ahead of time we could have made adjustments in spending so that the school dues would cover the cost.
The most that we could do was to pay for dinner and everyone pitched in with their own money. We didn't have enough students to cover plane ticket and hotel. My relationship with the building owner was good enough to where he would reduce the rent if needed. But I have to let him know ahead of time and the reason why.

If he chooses to make the trip, the trip is on him. The school/students/instructor could choose to pay to say thanks if they feel appreciative, but that shouldn't be expected. Just showing up and expecting it would stop me from wanting to do it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A school of praying mantis guys wanted to learn some Chinese wrestling. I didn't ask for any workshop fee but to put out a bucket for donation. My wife said that I acted like a beggar and she felt ashamed for me.

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless. What seems like goodness may in fact be the opposite.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If he chooses to make the trip, the trip is on him. The school/students/instructor could choose to pay to say thanks if they feel appreciative, but that shouldn't be expected. Just showing up and expecting it would stop me from wanting to do it.

At least the dinner was good. We had dishes from China, Philippines, Ukraine, and India.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless.

This is why you should take pictures and show what you are capable of doing. This helps people see value in what you teach.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless.

Why should I care what they think?

 

[Flying Crane]

A school of praying mantis guys wanted to learn some Chinese wrestling. I didn't ask for any workshop fee but to put out a bucket for donation. My wife said that I acted like a beggar and she felt ashamed for me.

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless. What seems like goodness may in fact be the opposite.

Maybe we have a difference here in culture. I dunno. But I do not believe this.

I would never open a commercial school at my cost, and then just open the doors to all comers for free training. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. But there are definitely times and and for certain people and situations, for whom it is appropriate or the right thing to do. Nobody is suggesting you ought to drive yourself into bankruptcy or homelessness by teaching for free, and refusing to accept a fee while you sell off all your belongings to buy your next meal.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’ve been considering getting a training group going in the park after Covid is under control. I want to keep costs down, hence use a public space like a park. I want the group to remain small. I don’t expect to get rich from this. If I can make a bit of spending money, great. Mostly, I would like to find a small group of like-minded people who enjoy training together. I appreciate that camaraderie. But I do know that I need liability insurance if I teach. It isn’t terribly expensive, but I would like to at least recover that cost, even if I start with just one or two students. I don’t want to spend my money for the privilege of teaching people who are, at least in the beginning, strangers. But if I can break even, maybe make a small profit, and have a good group to work with, that would be great.

If there is a need for someone to not pay, I am open to that possibility, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

A school of praying mantis guys wanted to learn some Chinese wrestling. I didn't ask for any workshop fee but to put out a bucket for donation. My wife said that I acted like a beggar and she felt ashamed for me.

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless. What seems like goodness may in fact be the opposite.

The people that think your stuff is worthless are the people who aren't willing to even look at your stuff. I don't really care what those people think.
And I'd have more respect for someone that put on a workshop letting people donate, than someone who had a specific fee for people (although I wouldn't lose any respect for someone who charged for a workshop...been to plenty of those). I think that might be a cultural difference.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I’ve been considering getting a training group going in the park after Covid is under control. I want to keep costs down, hence use a public space like a park. I want the group to remain small. I don’t expect to get rich from this. If I can make a bit of spending money, great. Mostly, I would like to find a small group of like-minded people who enjoy training together. I appreciate that camaraderie. But I do know that I need liability insurance if I teach. It isn’t terribly expensive, but I would like to at least recover that cost, even if I start with just one or two students. I don’t want to spend my money for the privilege of teaching people who are, at least in the beginning, strangers. But if I can break even, maybe make a small profit, and have a good group to work with, that would be great.

If there is a need for someone to not pay, I am open to that possibility, depending on the circumstances.

Consider approaching your local YMCA.

 

[Flying Crane]

Consider approaching your local YMCA.

Good point. The park has some obvious issues like the weather. And in the summertime it can get above 110 degrees, would be nice to have a space with air conditioning.

 

[Buka]

Old Chinese saying said, "It's easier to learn from a friend. It's harder to learn from a teacher."

There are free lunch among friends. It's difficult to get free lunch from your teacher.

Not so everywhere. The week before every Christmas we had a Christmas party. It started with a workout, of course, we played the Twelve Kicks of Christmas, which was always completely nuts. Everyone came down to either participate, help or watch their kids/friends/family.

While the game went on, which took about forty minutes, the turkeys and fixens came out. Usually three fifteen to twenty pound birds, stuffing, mashed potatoes, yams, gravy, the whole nine yards. I was fortunate to live within' forty minutes of a turkey farm where they prepared everything. And students and friends brought pies, cakes etc.

The deal was - come down, bring your family, friends, whoever, eat all you want, take home all you want - but you guys clean up afterwards. All junk goes in the dumpster outside afterwards.

One of the best days of the year. Even folks who no longer trained came down. It was like Old Home Week.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not so everywhere. The week before every Christmas we had a Christmas party. It started with a workout, of course, we played the Twelve Kicks of Christmas, which was always completely nuts. Everyone came down to either participate, help or watch their kids/friends/family.

While the game went on, which took about forty minutes, the turkeys and fixens came out. Usually three fifteen to twenty pound birds, stuffing, mashed potatoes, yams, gravy, the whole nine yards. I was fortunate to live within' forty minutes of a turkey farm where they prepared everything. And students and friends brought pies, cakes etc.

The deal was - come down, bring your family, friends, whoever, eat all you want, take home all you want - but you guys clean up afterwards. All junk goes in the dumpster outside afterwards.

One of the best days of the year. Even folks who no longer trained came down. It was like Old Home Week.

How is 12 kicks of christmas played?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Good point. The park has some obvious issues like the weather. And in the summertime it can get above 110 degrees, would be nice to have a space with air conditioning.

And they have insurance.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

And they have insurance.

And an easy(-ier) way of getting new individuals to check you out, while not necessarily getting too large. The only issue with that is if you're looking for a small group of experienced martial artists-many who come to the YMCA will not be experienced.

 

[Buka]

How is 12 kicks of christmas played?

I would lead the class, with a Santa hat on of course. I would always start off the same way, I'd sing "On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me....a front kick to the nose."

All the students would then throw a front kick, with a kiai. (only kiai in the game)

Then I'd sing "On the second day of Christmas my true love gave to me - and I'd point to a student, usually a kid, and he'd say, nice and loud, "On the second day of Christmas my true love gave to me...two jump, spinning hook kicks" and the class would throw two jump spinners, and we'd all shout loudly AND A FRONT KICK TO THE NOSE! (with Kiai)

On five, the slow Five Golden Rings line from the song I'd always sing....five seconds rest. And as the song went on that became really important.

The rules were, if someone called out a kick that you couldn't throw, or hadn't learned yet, just throw something else, just have fun.

So by the end of the Twelve Kicks of Christmas you might have...

Twelve hoping side kicks, eleven front leg round houses, ten 360 wheel kicks (hey, they picked em, not me) nine fall away side kicks, eight iron broom sweeps, seven slashing axe kicks, six hopping front leg reverse crescents, FIVE SECONDS REST (where everyone was bent over panting) four blah blah blahs etc.

At the final kick we'd all scream Merry Christmas and I'd yell "let's eat!"

The class was always packed, twenty to fifty students. And to play you were responsible for those around you, no errant kicks to anyone else. And there never was.

It was a tradition that went on for almost forty years. Turkeys and the Twelve Kicks of Christmas. Busiest night of the year. One of the most fun, too.

You can train them as hard as you want, as long as they're having fun.

 

[Flying Crane]

And an easy(-ier) way of getting new individuals to check you out, while not necessarily getting too large. The only issue with that is if you're looking for a small group of experienced martial artists-many who come to the YMCA will not be experienced.

I would be open to either. Whether or not they are experienced, if they are interested in what I would teach, it’s al good.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A school of praying mantis guys wanted to learn some Chinese wrestling. I didn't ask for any workshop fee but to put out a bucket for donation. My wife said that I acted like a beggar and she felt ashamed for me.

If you give away thing for free, people may think your stuff is worthless. What seems like goodness may in fact be the opposite.

Some may. Many won't.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe we have a difference here in culture. I dunno. But I do not believe this.

I would never open a commercial school at my cost, and then just open the doors to all comers for free training. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. But there are definitely times and and for certain people and situations, for whom it is appropriate or the right thing to do. Nobody is suggesting you ought to drive yourself into bankruptcy or homelessness by teaching for free, and refusing to accept a fee while you sell off all your belongings to buy your next meal.

John has a habit of arguing the extremes.