Any practitioners of Kyukokinshai here?

[chinto]

If you spar without full power, you will not be able to fight with full power simple as that. It is not as easy as just going all out. You need to do, and practice it.

Unless you spar using full power techniques and combinations (and do them continuous, not break for each hit expecting a point to be awarded) , you will not be able to throw them for real. If you spar with semi or light contact, you actually train yourself NOT to throw them full contact. And unless you have had a opponent throw full power shots at you with serious intent to hit, you are just not prepared to absorb/block them and continue the fight.

Hitting the bag and pads is a good start, but it does not replace (not even slightly) actual live sparring.

Skill level is another matter entirely. High level no/light-contact fighters unused to full contact sparring will get their asses handed to them by much lower level fighters used to contact. Just as lower level no/light-contact fighters easily will defeat high level full contact fighters in no/low-contact sparring. It is just different skills -and of philosophy.

OK. The knockdown karate rules then have their own problems (like no face punches), but there is no such thing as completely realistic fight competition rules.

well we do spar with out the stop with a "point" and we take it to the ground some times too. and there are ground fighting techs in the kata if you look closely. but I understand what you are saying. if you train only for say point fighting and face a full contact fight trained man you are in trouble. but, if you do not train for compitition like I dont, then you train diferently then the man who does train for compatition. and we put on the armor and do all out once in a while. but my main point was if you train to fight for keeps, with the stuff that is in the unmodified, old style kata you will be training for the fight that should last seconds, not minutes. real fights on the street are short and nasty. compleatly diferent then what you see in a turnement or in say the UFC or K1 rings.

 

[Zero]

You will find that with a real fight on the street, if you ever come up against an experienced/trained fighter, you self defence moves may not be of much use (excluding a quick groin/eye shot you may get in). The self defence techniques are generally for against unskilled or low skill level aggressors. They will not help much on their own against a skilled ma fighter.

The fights I train for are full contact mma. MY whole training philosophy is for both competing in the ring and for when having to fight another skilled opponent no-holds-barred on the street - to me there is no purer/truer way in karate and martial arts and no truer test of one's self and your own ability. An experienced fighter knows your own defence moves and instinctively feels them 'coming on' - you need to defeat them with pure, no nonsense attacks.

 

[tshadowchaser]

ok lets get back to discussing Kyukokinshai its benefits and negative aspects.

I have know many Kyukokinshai over the years and found there strikes to be hard and at times devastating. The hand conditioning they do is fronded upon by many today but if you ever get hit by one of those fists it hurts like hell.
Now I have seen in this thread the reference to the Kyukokinshai people not doing a lot of head punches but I am here to tell you they know how to hit the head and have no trouble punching you in the face if they so desire.
Is this a good system for children? well, I guess that would depend on the instructor. I personally think a person should be in their late teens to start this training and have their muscle and bone growth pretty well developed before trying the system, but that is only a personal thought. The training is HARD and not for those afraid of a little contact

 

[Zero]

Now you've gone and got us in trouble for going off topic Chinto!!

Oh and tshadowchaser, after years of fighting ksk fighters, I'm here to tell you that many of them (not all!!) are not up there when it comes to blocking/slipping head punches - and this is a gap I think people should consider and make amends for in supplemental training - but granted not something that is exactly on point for the intial query on this link.

 

[tshadowchaser]

many of them (not all!!) are not up there when it comes to blocking/slipping head punches

that could be said of many in most styles/systems

 

[MetalForBreakfast]

well it sounds good to me, I just wish I could figure out whats up with this international kyokushin kai union and Hartford Kyokushinkai LLC. I can't find ANY information on the organization or the intructor.

 

[chinto]

You will find that with a real fight on the street, if you ever come up against an experienced/trained fighter, you self defence moves may not be of much use (excluding a quick groin/eye shot you may get in). The self defence techniques are generally for against unskilled or low skill level aggressors. They will not help much on their own against a skilled ma fighter.

The fights I train for are full contact mma. MY whole training philosophy is for both competing in the ring and for when having to fight another skilled opponent no-holds-barred on the street - to me there is no purer/truer way in karate and martial arts and no truer test of one's self and your own ability. An experienced fighter knows your own defence moves and instinctively feels them 'coming on' - you need to defeat them with pure, no nonsense attacks.

if you are attacked by a skilled fighter on the street, it will provably be an ambush and from behind and the attacker will be armed... survival will be a win. but on the other hand if it is something you do see comeing, and it is a skilled fighter you face, the fight will be over in a very very short time one way or the other. the fight for your life is over very quickly, in 10's of seconds and defenently not minutes. In that situation skill level you and the attacker have and intent will make a decisive diference. oh and by the way you can just about garantee cops involved and provably hospital time for both or at least one, if not worse.

 

[Martin h]

.

 

[Martin h]

Sorry, correction: they have no connection with the all-japan kyokushin union

Looks like a small american based organization. They had a webpage: http://www.iku-honbu.org/ but its dead now The same guy also ran the organization American kyokushinkai" (with the now dead link http://www.american-kyokushinkai.com/ ) created 1999.
There is very little info on this guy.

 

[Zero]

that could be said of many in most styles/systems

So sad Tshadowchaser, I know and lament the fact. We should all spend more time if possible supplementing our training with boxers for the good old hand skills.

 

[MetalForBreakfast]

Thanks for the help martin, both my current instructors know him apparently and they think he may have closed his school, but they said I should go talk to him since he owns a store in the same town I live in. As far as supplementing techniques, it's a matter of how you practice and how your instructor has you practice, imo. People who NEVER train to punch to head will never punch to the head, whereas even if you spar without head punches, if you practice techniques with head punches, you'll *sort of* know what its like. You fight like you train.