ANY Fighting Style can work if you train it right.

[WhisperingButterfly]

Funny how this conversation suddenly turned Wing Chun. Is Wing Chun a style of fighting. Perhaps I should study the Wing Chun thread. Anyway, thanks for all the comments.

 

[WhisperingButterfly]

I have to disagree with the bolded part quoted above. Yes, you are correct that when adapted for fighting or competition, WC often looks very different from the "classical" posturing we see in the Ip Man movies and many traditional schools, but the core combative principles are not changed so much.

The problem is that so few people train and test their WC realistically, that there isn't a lot to look at. On the WC forum, Sean (Lobo66) is giving it a go, and of course there are Alan Orr's Iron Wolves. Locally here in Phoenix, there is a group called DTE MMA that integrates WC principles effectively into the way they train their fighters. They don't look like WC guys... and in fact, they aren't. But they do use many WC core principles effectively and realistically. Probably as they were intended to be used back when WC was actually used for fighting. Just my 2 cents.

By MT, are you speaking of Muai Thai? And I've never heard of a "wingchunner". What is that...some newly evolved MMA thing? People, not to be confrontational, but these acronyms and abbreviations are annoying and disrespectful. I seek to study the arts and learn with an open mind. It is not wise to disrespect any art.

 

[geezer]

By MT, are you speaking of Muai Thai? And I've never heard of a "wingchunner". What is that...some newly evolved MMA thing? People, not to be confrontational, but these acronyms and abbreviations are annoying and disrespectful. I seek to study the arts and learn with an open mind. It is not wise to disrespect any art.

No disrespect intended. You will find that we all tend to fall back on abbreviations to save time in back and forth discussions. If you do a search under abbreviations you will find several threads just on this topic, dating back some 15 years. Off the top of my head, some common abbreviations are:

MA = Martial Arts
TMA =Traditional Martial Arts
JMA = Japanese Martial Arts
KMA = Korean Martial Arts
CMA = Chinese Martial Arts
TCMA =Traditional Chinese Martial Arts
WC = Wing Chun
FMA = Filipino Martial Arts
MT = Muay Thai
EPK = Ed Parker Kenpo
JKD =Jeet Kuen Do
TKD = Tae Kwon Do
HKD = Hapkido
TSD =Tang Soo Do
MMA = Mixed Martial Arts
HEMA = Historical European Martial Arts

...and the list goes on and on. If you ever encounter an abbreviation that you are unfamiliar with, no problem. Just ask! We are a pretty friendly bunch here.

 

[drop bear]

By MT, are you speaking of Muai Thai? And I've never heard of a "wingchunner". What is that...some newly evolved MMA thing? People, not to be confrontational, but these acronyms and abbreviations are annoying and disrespectful. I seek to study the arts and learn with an open mind. It is not wise to disrespect any art.

Nobody has time to write mixed martial arts in every sentance though. God forbid we would start discussing the ultimate fighting championship.

 

[drop bear]

No disrespect intended. You will find that we all tend to fall back on abbreviations to save time in back and forth discussions. If you do a search under abbreviations you will find several threads just on this topic, dating back some 15 years. Off the top of my head, some common abbreviations are:

MA = Martial Arts
TMA =Traditional Martial Arts
JMA = Japanese Martial Arts
KMA = Korean Martial Arts
CMA = Chinese Martial Arts
TCMA =Traditional Chinese Martial Arts
WC = Wing Chun
FMA = Filipino Martial Arts
MT = Muay Thai
EPK = Ed Parker Kenpo
JKD =Jeet Kuen Do
TKD = Tae Kwon Do
HKD = Hapkido
TSD =Tang Soo Do
MMA = Mixed Martial Arts
HEMA = Historical European Martial Arts

...and the list goes on and on. If you ever encounter an abbreviation that you are unfamiliar with, no problem. Just ask! We are a pretty friendly bunch here.

MT. is also Martial Talk. Just to avoid more confusion.

 

[WhisperingButterfly]

Thank You all for your explanations. My point is this: While i respect the idea of "saving time," I feel that we owe any art the honor and discipline of spelling out the name of said art. I have been studying the Martial Arts for many years, and have aquired a deep respect for the amount of time, discipline, and patience required to evolve and formulate a "new" Martial Art process. Is Martial Art not predicated on hard work and discipline? Furthermore, is not the practice of such an art (way) developed in all actions? If i were to seek to develop perfect form, would i not seek to maintain such form in all actions and endevors? I would rather not be sloppy and undisciplined- -although i am traversing the human condition- -that must not continue to be an "exuse"--lest i find myself misconstrued and therefore lost in my way. However, these are modern times and i am i guest here, so i will study and respect your way. That means i must learn those abbreviations! But i will never use them because that is not my way.

 

[Steve]

As the kids say, you do you.

 

[Jenna]

As the kids say, you do you.

..or YDY

 

[jobo]

Thank You all for your explanations. My point is this: While i respect the idea of "saving time," I feel that we owe any art the honor and discipline of spelling out the name of said art. I have been studying the Martial Arts for many years, and have aquired a deep respect for the amount of time, discipline, and patience required to evolve and formulate a "new" Martial Art process. Is Martial Art not predicated on hard work and discipline? Furthermore, is not the practice of such an art (way) developed in all actions? If i were to seek to develop perfect form, would i not seek to maintain such form in all actions and endevors? I would rather not be sloppy and undisciplined- -although i am traversing the human condition- -that must not continue to be an "exuse"--lest i find myself misconstrued and therefore lost in my way. However, these are modern times and i am i guest here, so i will study and respect your way. That means i must learn those abbreviations! But i will never use them because that is not my way.

I suspect that a night out with you would be a nightmare, the world uses abbreviations, the police use them, the government use them, the martials associations use them about their own art, there is little in the way of disrespect about doing so,

 

[WhisperingButterfly]

I suspect that a night out with you would be a nightmare, the world uses abbreviations, the police use them, the government use them, the martials associations use them about their own art, there is little in the way of disrespect about doing so,

Well, you will never have to worry about a night out with me . However, to clarify, I was speaking of Martial Arts--Martial Arts that were founded and developed by Martial Art Masters--not MMA or the other things of which you speak. I mean no disrespect to MMA, which is an art in itself, but not a specific art founded by an individual or group of individuals with a specific name indicating a specific meaning. Furthermore, it is nothing more than my opinion--and we know what they say about those;maybe there is an acronym for that--I would definitely use it! I got the information I need (the list of abbreviations), now I am finished with this discussion.

 

[Martial D]

Thank You all for your explanations. My point is this: While i respect the idea of "saving time," I feel that we owe any art the honor and discipline of spelling out the name of said art. I have been studying the Martial Arts for many years, and have aquired a deep respect for the amount of time, discipline, and patience required to evolve and formulate a "new" Martial Art process. Is Martial Art not predicated on hard work and discipline? Furthermore, is not the practice of such an art (way) developed in all actions? If i were to seek to develop perfect form, would i not seek to maintain such form in all actions and endevors? I would rather not be sloppy and undisciplined- -although i am traversing the human condition- -that must not continue to be an "exuse"--lest i find myself misconstrued and therefore lost in my way. However, these are modern times and i am i guest here, so i will study and respect your way. That means i must learn those abbreviations! But i will never use them because that is not my way.

 

[JP3]

Thank You all for your explanations. My point is this: While i respect the idea of "saving time," I feel that we owe any art the honor and discipline of spelling out the name of said art. I have been studying the Martial Arts for many years, and have aquired a deep respect for the amount of time, discipline, and patience required to evolve and formulate a "new" Martial Art process. Is Martial Art not predicated on hard work and discipline? Furthermore, is not the practice of such an art (way) developed in all actions? If i were to seek to develop perfect form, would i not seek to maintain such form in all actions and endevors? I would rather not be sloppy and undisciplined- -although i am traversing the human condition- -that must not continue to be an "exuse"--lest i find myself misconstrued and therefore lost in my way. However, these are modern times and i am i guest here, so i will study and respect your way. That means i must learn those abbreviations! But i will never use them because that is not my way.

For me, the purpose of communication is to convey information, concepts and ideas from one entity to another. If both sides understand the language, e.g. shorthand references, slang terms, acronyms and so forth, the purpose is reached, goal achieved. Then the next concern is the time it takes for the communication to take place.

For me, I'd rather just talk to a person on the phone, rather than sending tapped-out short-short-long-long-long morse code messages..... and the use of acronyms is parallel.

Life is short, there's no need wasting time, thus life, worrying about something for which the priority of concern is so low.

That's my thought.

Acronym away, just have a key so people can figure it out.

 

[drop bear]

Let's not dog pile the new guy.

 

[WhisperingButterfly]

For me, the purpose of communication is to convey information, concepts and ideas from one entity to another. If both sides understand the language, e.g. shorthand references, slang terms, acronyms and so forth, the purpose is reached, goal achieved. Then the next concern is the time it takes for the communication to take place.

For me, I'd rather just talk to a person on the phone, rather than sending tapped-out short-short-long-long-long morse code messages..... and the use of acronyms is parallel.

Life is short, there's no need wasting time, thus life, worrying about something for which the priority of concern is so low.

That's my thought.

Acronym away, just have a key so people can figure it out.

Yes, and i agree. However, there ARE certain principles that relate specifically to MA, and while i am willing to adapt, discipline must be maintained as an ongoing process. So when one refers to Jeet Kun Do, ,for example, and the one with a sincere effort to learn say " the concept of intercepting force,"--although Bruce Lee utilized JKD Himself- -How can one draw this conclusion when Jeet Kun Do (the way of the intercepting fist) is simply perceived as "JKD"--and thus such concepts are removed in context by way of modern thought processes. Perhaps this is why Bruce Lee chose Philosophy as his Major ; He had the "potential" to move in any direction, and certainly the pressures that would- -in a man without such passion- -simply "cash in." Now we get to hear about how "Bruce Lee utilized his status to promote JKD." That is so far from the truth that it makes me want to puke. The concept of intercepting force is actually quite brilliant, if one could be disciplined enough to realize and apply such a concept. The same philosophical process applies to Wing Chun, which has nothing to do with interception and everything to do with form and positioning, contact sensitivity to develop the kinesthetic awareness necessary to understand the neutralization and application of force- -while at the same time liberatiing oneself of the narrow concept of "power"--which seems to be the way of martial arts these days. Wing Chun seeks not this "power"..which ultimately leads to conflict, struggle and the decimation of the natural energies that constitute what we think of as "the human condition. " So be it, as "it" most certainty will be. Only simplicity will ever penetrate complexity. ..perhaps not simplicity as we tend to "know it."

 

[Martial D]

Let's not dog pile the new guy.

I don't dog pile, you should probably realize by now I'm not here to try to win friends. I would have responded to that post the same way if we were the only two users on this board.

 

[Martial D]

Yes, and i agree. However, there ARE certain principles that relate specifically to MA, and while i am willing to adapt, discipline must be maintained as an ongoing process. So when one refers to Jeet Kun Do, ,for example, and the one with a sincere effort to learn say " the concept of intercepting force,"--although Bruce Lee utilized JKD Himself- -How can one draw this conclusion when Jeet Kun Do (the way of the intercepting fist) is simply perceived as "JKD"--and thus such concepts are removed in context by way of modern thought processes. Perhaps this is why Bruce Lee chose Philosophy as his Major ; He had the "potential" to move in any direction, and certainly the pressures that would- -in a man without such passion- -simply "cash in." Now we get to hear about how "Bruce Lee utilized his status to promote JKD." That is so far from the truth that it makes me want to puke. The concept of intercepting force is actually quite brilliant, if one could be disciplined enough to realize and apply such a concept. The same philosophical process applies to Wing Chun, which has nothing to do with interception and everything to do with form and positioning, contact sensitivity to develop the kinesthetic awareness necessary to understand the neutralization and application of force- -while at the same time liberatiing oneself of the narrow concept of "power"--which seems to be the way of martial arts these days. Wing Chun seeks not this "power"..which ultimately leads to conflict, struggle and the decimation of the natural energies that constitute what we think of as "the human condition. " So be it, as "it" most certainty will be. Only simplicity will ever penetrate complexity. ..perhaps not simplicity as we tend to "know it."

How did you suddenly become an expert on JKD and WC?

 

[jobo]

Yes, and i agree. However, there ARE certain principles that relate specifically to MA, and while i am willing to adapt, discipline must be maintained as an ongoing process. So when one refers to Jeet Kun Do, ,for example, and the one with a sincere effort to learn say " the concept of intercepting force,"--although Bruce Lee utilized JKD Himself- -How can one draw this conclusion when Jeet Kun Do (the way of the intercepting fist) is simply perceived as "JKD"--and thus such concepts are removed in context by way of modern thought processes. Perhaps this is why Bruce Lee chose Philosophy as his Major ; He had the "potential" to move in any direction, and certainly the pressures that would- -in a man without such passion- -simply "cash in." Now we get to hear about how "Bruce Lee utilized his status to promote JKD." That is so far from the truth that it makes me want to puke. The concept of intercepting force is actually quite brilliant, if one could be disciplined enough to realize and apply such a concept. The same philosophical process applies to Wing Chun, which has nothing to do with interception and everything to do with form and positioning, contact sensitivity to develop the kinesthetic awareness necessary to understand the neutralization and application of force- -while at the same time liberatiing oneself of the narrow concept of "power"--which seems to be the way of martial arts these days. Wing Chun seeks not this "power"..which ultimately leads to conflict, struggle and the decimation of the natural energies that constitute what we think of as "the human condition. " So be it, as "it" most certainty will be. Only simplicity will ever penetrate complexity. ..perhaps not simplicity as we tend to "know it."

have you taken time to consider if you take MAa bit to seriously, they should first and foremost be about enjoyment, you know FUN, At the point when your in to considering the human condition its more hair shirt than fun

 

[jobo]

How did you suddenly become an expert on JKD and WC?

hmm yea, it more be a fast,correspondence course, he didn't know what a,style was two days ago

 

[DaveB]

Yes, and i agree. However, there ARE certain principles that relate specifically to MA, and while i am willing to adapt, discipline must be maintained as an ongoing process. So when one refers to Jeet Kun Do, ,for example, and the one with a sincere effort to learn say " the concept of intercepting force,"--although Bruce Lee utilized JKD Himself- -How can one draw this conclusion when Jeet Kun Do (the way of the intercepting fist) is simply perceived as "JKD"--and thus such concepts are removed in context by way of modern thought processes. Perhaps this is why Bruce Lee chose Philosophy as his Major ; He had the "potential" to move in any direction, and certainly the pressures that would- -in a man without such passion- -simply "cash in." Now we get to hear about how "Bruce Lee utilized his status to promote JKD." That is so far from the truth that it makes me want to puke. The concept of intercepting force is actually quite brilliant, if one could be disciplined enough to realize and apply such a concept. The same philosophical process applies to Wing Chun, which has nothing to do with interception and everything to do with form and positioning, contact sensitivity to develop the kinesthetic awareness necessary to understand the neutralization and application of force- -while at the same time liberatiing oneself of the narrow concept of "power"--which seems to be the way of martial arts these days. Wing Chun seeks not this "power"..which ultimately leads to conflict, struggle and the decimation of the natural energies that constitute what we think of as "the human condition. " So be it, as "it" most certainty will be. Only simplicity will ever penetrate complexity. ..perhaps not simplicity as we tend to "know it."

What a load of pretentious thread derailing garbage.

I'm sure you mean well but you have no business telling anyone else how to respect martial arts. Especially when that's not the topic of the thread.

 

[DaveB]

Here's a good example of someone who understands how to translate principles to combat situations beyond a style bubble and who recognises that training is not the same as fighting.