Anecdotal vs. empirical

[jobo]

It is relevant if the ball has poison spikes .

do you think that's likely?

 

[Steve]

do you think that's likely?

Is that relevant?

 

[jobo]

Is that relevant?

well yea, you just made a,daft comment, I have no idea what your trying to convey with it, perhaps if you presented a Cogent point, we would has something to discuss. Or you could make some point,about juggling rattle snakes in the same vein as the one above

 

[Steve]

well yea, you just made a,daft comment, I have no idea what your trying to convey with it, perhaps if you presented a Cogent point, we would has something to discuss. Or you could make some point,about juggling rattle snakes in the same vein as the one above

jobo, I actually enjoy your posts, but (and I say this with love) you wouldn't recognize a cogent point if it kicked a spiked, poison ball in your goal.

 

[jobo]

jobo, I actually enjoy your posts, but (and I say this with love) you wouldn't recognize a cogent point if it kicked a spiked, poison ball in your goal.

well we will never know as the chances of one being made by you orca fair few others is slight to none

but seriously I have no idea what point you were trying to make with you spikey football analogy

 

[drop bear]

do you want to swap street experiences, mine,stated when I was four and I'm 58 now, could take a while,

I fought a dragon once. A real fire breathing dragon.

 

[jobo]

I fought a dragon once. A real fire breathing dragon.

I got in a fight once whilst carry a fridge

 

[drop bear]

I don't see much empirical in that process. It's logical, and using anecdotal evidence to support it. Where running exists, flying kicks become more likely to be useful. Similar to my comments about overextension (which also happens when people are trying to catch you, incidentally) and aiki.

I did find about ten examples of the move working before I came up with a theory. That moves from anecdotal I think. And I have observed the kick anecdotally.

So. I saw the kick pulled off. Reserved my judgement. Went to you tube. Found the kick repeated. Looked for the common traits. Came up with a hypothesis.

I haven't tested it back in resisted training. So it is still a concept. I train things that I am likley to pull off in training.

And it is a move for a specific situation where other moves may not be as safe.(logical)

If someone overextends in training and you can whip out aiki without getting your face punched in. You have a viable defence.

My issue with training over extended punch style defences is anecdotally they don't work as well as flying kicks. There are not as many examples on you tube of them working (empirical). I have personally tried them and they are low percentage. And there is almost always a safer move to do.(not logical). You do not account for speed that provides that aiki. and you do not account for complexity under stress.

I do not suggest that my sparring partner changes his system to something I can deal with so I can deal with it. (Laboratory testing)

I am happy to be persuaded by evidence.

If i was serious about adding flying kicks to my arsenal it would have to be trained in a manner I can do it unscripted. Because then that evidence would be empirical.

I could start throwing flying kicks in sparring to see what happens. You could if you wanted get someone put some gloves on and tell them to knock your head off.

I at least accept flying kicks are a mental exercise.

 

[drop bear]

I got in a fight once whilst carry a fridge

I shot a man in reno.


Just to watch him die.

 

[jobo]

I shot a man in reno.


Just to watch him die.

still in folsom prison are you?

 

[drop bear]

Quite a temper tantrum. I understand your position, but I'm pretty sure you've never taken the time to understand mine. Once you have, Ill gladly accept your apology.

And we can. Because ring craft is threat awarness. Distance timing and creating positions.

In MMA how do you stop getting taken down?

You apply street of course.

And it is not just theoretical. You get a practical experience.

 

[Steve]

I shot a man in reno.


Just to watch him die.

I hear the train a comin. Comin round the bend. And I ain't seen the sunshine til... I don't know when.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

not relevant, if I kick a ball a ball into a goal its a goal,that has no bearing on if either I or the goal keeper go home later

False equivalency.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with you spikey football analogy

Of that, I have no doubt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I did find about ten examples of the move working before I came up with a theory. That moves from anecdotal I think. And I have observed the kick anecdotally.

So. I saw the kick pulled off. Reserved my judgement. Went to you tube. Found the kick repeated. Looked for the common traits. Came up with a hypothesis.

I haven't tested it back in resisted training. So it is still a concept. I train things that I am likley to pull off in training.

And it is a move for a specific situation where other moves may not be as safe.(logical)

If someone overextends in training and you can whip out aiki without getting your face punched in. You have a viable defence.

My issue with training over extended punch style defences is anecdotally they don't work as well as flying kicks. There are not as many examples on you tube of them working (empirical). I have personally tried them and they are low percentage. And there is almost always a safer move to do.(not logical). You do not account for speed that provides that aiki. and you do not account for complexity under stress.

I do not suggest that my sparring partner changes his system to something I can deal with so I can deal with it. (Laboratory testing)

I am happy to be persuaded by evidence.

If i was serious about adding flying kicks to my arsenal it would have to be trained in a manner I can do it unscripted. Because then that evidence would be empirical.

I could start throwing flying kicks in sparring to see what happens. You could if you wanted get someone put some gloves on and tell them to knock your head off.

I at least accept flying kicks are a mental exercise.

As usual, when "aiki" is brought up, you argue against something you make clear (in your very argument) you don't quite comprehend.

As for the first part of your post, you make good points. There's an approach that falls short of statistical relevance, but works for logical deduction. That's where anecdotal evidence helps contribute. 10 anecdotes doesn't cease to be anecdotal evidence. 1 video doesn't cease to be video evidence and turn into anecdotal evidence. Both are useful, if used appropriately. Ignoring either (or misusing them) can lead to false conclusions.

 

[drop bear]

As usual, when "aiki" is brought up, you argue against something you make clear (in your very argument) you don't quite comprehend.

As for the first part of your post, you make good points. There's an approach that falls short of statistical relevance, but works for logical deduction. That's where anecdotal evidence helps contribute. 10 anecdotes doesn't cease to be anecdotal evidence. 1 video doesn't cease to be video evidence and turn into anecdotal evidence. Both are useful, if used appropriately. Ignoring either (or misusing them) can lead to false conclusions.

I don't do aiki and for the most part think it is science fiction.

I do like the concept of good technique which is easier to understand and more practically demonstrated.

The street is difficult to get feedback from and peoples understanding of it is generally 2nd or 3rd hand.

I mean we can see the misunderstandings when I talk Aikido and you talk MMA. If we consider that about normal. Imagine how wrong everyone is about the street.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't do aiki and for the most part think it is science fiction.

I do like the concept of good technique which is easier to understand and more practically demonstrated.

The street is difficult to get feedback from and peoples understanding of it is generally 2nd or 3rd hand.

I mean we can see the misunderstandings when I talk Aikido and you talk MMA. If we consider that about normal. Imagine how wrong everyone is about the street.

I try not to talk MMA much. It's not something I know well. I can speak to small bits of it, based upon what I've heard from those who are more involved.

Aiki is hard to describe, true enough. I consider it an advanced concept, not a necessary one in its full expression - though it can be coached in its basic form from day one (and is, in many arts, IMO). It's something worth having, but it doesn't fit everyone's personality.

 

[drop bear]

I try not to talk MMA much. It's not something I know well. I can speak to small bits of it, based upon what I've heard from those who are more involved.

Aiki is hard to describe, true enough. I consider it an advanced concept, not a necessary one in its full expression - though it can be coached in its basic form from day one (and is, in many arts, IMO). It's something worth having, but it doesn't fit everyone's personality.

The point being my third party concept of Aiki. Is pretty much everyones concept of street.

Exept we have every man and his dog trying to sell me that they are some sort of expert. So not only do we get third party concepts. But we also have to wade through a mountain of BS.

A martial arts instructor has a vested intrest in appearing like some sort of badass. Combine that with a subject nobody knows and we definitely get guys who take it too far.



Now there are obvious and extreme examples. But on this topic we will have a range of outright liars to absolute honesty. And everyone inbetween.

 

[Jenna]

Yes. In both situations, as you note, there are other possible repercussions. You might not go to jail, which is a huge concern. But there can be lasting effects from having been involved in any kind of altercation, particularly if you have had to take someone's life in self defense.

Similarly, emergency contraception might manage any unplanned pregnancy, but it won't help you with other potential ramifications of your actions, from potential STDs to any emotional fallout caused by your actions.

George Zimmerman is the unfortunate poster child for what can happen, even when you've been legally cleared. Whether he was justified or not, he was found legally innocent of the charges, and yet his life is pretty much wrecked anyway.

Thanks, Jenna!

All true yes! not so much airplay given over to discussion of these realities of either situation.. when my son was at school sex ed was given a perfunctory check-box treatment like now you know what can happen promise you will all go do it safely pffft.. ramifications to kids mean little at times..

Though I think it is a very apt analogue to defence.. Is good.. I like that you thought of that.. Like for teaching SD qualifications in counselling are hardly necessary yet courses do not have space nor, I imagine, would it play well advertising after the afternoon groin strike and clavicle grab section the handling of emotional issues after a physical altercation.. no mileage I imagine.. I am glad you raise the issue though x