an sword/kenjutsu?

Discussion in 'American Ninjutsu' started by Enson, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    just wondering if anyone would care to share how they train in kenjutsu?

    *how you train?
    *what training swords are used?
    *what real swords are used?
    *is the ninja-to used?
    *is anything resembling a sword used?
    *advise?
    *games?
    *tips?
    *forms/kata used?

    have fun!

    -mt moderator-
     
  2. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    my guess is Kenjutsu is training with a sword right?

    well if not then ingnore me :p

    What we train with is a wooden Bokkon and a bamboo shinai
    The bokken we do the form training and the shinai is what we use for sparring

    Generaly every so often when everyone has there swords:
    if there new/dont know we go over all the basic strikes and blocks
    and if everyone has a general feel for the sword we go over techniques with each other with a mix of strikes and blocks and so on

    Now with the shinai we usally all watch a one on one sparring and take turns sparring whitch is fun :p

    It is presumed and highly recomended that you practice the forms and blocks at home like you would with kata and so on

    but my school we dont really do 'games' i think the only game we play is with pads and 'weapons' where we all run at them and fight to the death :p

    Uh tips, practice a lot :p
     
  3. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    In To-Shin Do we use both real katana swords (not sharpened blades) or bokken for form - the weight and feel is nice! For full contact we use padded swords like Actionflex or ones I've purchased from Century (lots cheaper). Currently I'm training in the Juji no Kamae from An-Shu Hayes' material (Shoden Kata).
    First he shows the technique and its perspective defense. Then with a modern knife and also an unarmed application. Other than that, that is all I've done with regard to sword training.

    Previously I never was interested in Kenjutsu, but now that I've been exposed it really opens up something exciting. I definitely want to do more.
     
  4. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Hi Guys,

    The Kenjutsu training I started with was under Shihan Bill Atkins (Bujinkan TenChiJin Dojo) There we used Bokken and Shinai (With leather cover).
    The other sword work I have done is with The Academy of Theatrical Combat (www.theatricalcombat.com. If you click on the martial arts section you will see me, as I am there martial arts guy).

    It is very interesting to see the difference between actual Kenjutsu and what Hollywood calls Kenjutsu. Alot of the sword work you see in the Ninja movies would get you killed very quickly. I have also noticed that there is a big diffrence between cuts in Kendo and Kenjutsu.

    Sparring. Not all out, more like one point sparring using shinai. However good Kenjutsu doesn't work unless you have good Taijutsu skills

    Later
    Patrick
     
  5. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    in rtms we do a lot of sword training.

    we start off learning fundamentals about the sword... then 14 angle strikes. after we implement stances... then diffence against the sword... armed/unarmed...

    the game we play is the combat sword game. this can be played with shinai or foam swords (actionflex/century foam). you start off crossing blades.. the first one to move initiates the attack... then if you strike one limb the wounded stops places that limb out of commision and then back to the battle. 2 limbs and that counts as a win or a single blow to the head/body/back. once there is a win the game starts all over again.

    advice... watch your footing/movements... make sure they are as fluid as possible. your taijutsu will reflect your kenjutsu.

    peace
     
  6. Bester

    Bester <font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu

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    Kenjutsu is a separate art from Ninjutsu. Just as many styles/families/whatever. There is often more to it than what you see integrated with most martial systems.

    That said, how applicable do you see sword training in the modern world? While you may encounter some nut swinging a machete, an armored Samurai is pretty rare these days.

    When training with action flex, shinai or similar, how do you handle the blade-awareness? By that I mean movements done with a round weapon (stick) are subtlety different from those done with an edged weapon. Swords 'slice'. Sticks 'smash'. There is a subtle but definite difference. Certain blocks with a stick (stick here meaning shinai, etc) will damage your weapon, or worse, disarm you is done the same way with a sword.

    Additionally, certain strikes with a stick will discomfort, but the same strike with a blade can kill. Brush tip across belly for example. With a stick, it may just knock the wind out of you. With a blade, its a bit messier.
     
  7. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    Training with Actionflex or anything similar is only to practice timing for me. For form, as stated previously in this thread, bokken or actual blade is needed with it's weight and all. Blade awareness? Well, I gotta say that if you're touched with the practice blades or swords in any way, then you've been pretty much cut. Not much difference there. I guess, unless a person is willing to mame one's uke then I guess a live sword could be used. Do everything one can imagine to foster a real scenario. Get as close to it as you can create. That's all that can be done.
     
  8. Bester

    Bester <font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu

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    Not quite what I was saying, but not far from it. I'm not recommending sparing with live steel, or even full force with stage steel. Just that there are differences, and to be aware of them?

    When you use practice blades, how do you determine a cut has been achieved? I've seen people use lipstick and chalk on their bokkens.
     
  9. gmunoz

    gmunoz Purple Belt

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    For me, I've never done the chalk or lipstick thing, but I did read that in another thread around here and found that to be a viable idea. What about anybody else? For the most part, I and my training partner are just honest with each other and admit when we got hit if it wasn't obvious.
     
  10. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    I have used a black pen (board marker) against a white t shirt when teaching Kenpo back in the UK. Pretty much shows you how you cope under slashing attacks. I find the difference between a slashing weapon and a bashing weapon to be depth of penertation. Also a lot of people using sword who don't have training use it as a baseball bat anyhows. I find that when facing an armed attacker (knife for example) my senses become heightened. I find that I move that little bit quicker. I have used baseball bats in self defense situations in class as they are pretty common attacks in the UK (especially where I lived).

    The hands and arms move in pretty much the same way a sword would be used. So you could say that you are learning body mechanics/dynamics which would lead you into a self defense techniques. The body can only move in so many directions, it is the weapon itself that changes you course of action. You can grab a baseball bat, but would frown on grabbing a live blade.

    The Kenjutsu taught in Ninjutsu/Budo Taijutsu/Toshindo only works if your Taijutsu skills are good to start with. The Kenjutsu in Ninjutsu
    looks completely different to those of other Japanese Ryu i.e Shinkage Ryu for example...Hope this helps

    Regards
    Patrick
     
  11. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Just a quick note...

    Regarding the psycological aspects of combat/weapons, the British armed forces (Para or SAS I Believe) train knife tecniques on pig carcasses. As the soldiers begin to attack the bacon (LOL) they thrown buckets of pigs blood onto them, just to see how they would react...

    I think the marker pen attacks are along the same lines, as you can see the area being attacked, how would you deal with limb destruction in a self defense senario? I think hit as being hit could be a possibility, however if someone pulls a weapon I think it would be better to attack the attack and ask questions later. Regardless of whether it is a sword/knife or bat the fight must be over in less than 10 seconds.
    As An Shu Hayes put it regarding striking.. "It is putting someone on the floor when they need to be put on the floor"

    Later
    Patrick

    PS. Would love to hear what other members think of realistic/psycological training...
     
  12. Bester

    Bester <font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu

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    The blood also creates unique variations in weapon handling and control that are different from water or normal sweat, in addition to the psychological aspects.

    There is a reason why it is called "First Blood".
     
  13. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    My first Kenpo teacher in the UK, was ex special forces. He told me many things about training with weapons. Regarding the pig thing he also mentioned using the oil from orange peel to help with grip.Also he mentioned "Fighting Blind" I presume he means with blood in your eyes.
    Very interesting...

    Patrick
     
  14. Bester

    Bester <font color=blue><B>Grand UberSoke, Sith-jutsu Ryu

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    I have sparred with sweat pouring into my eyes. Very uncomfortable, especially considering I could not wipe it off due to the safety gear. I have practiced some techniques partially blindfolded, in the dark and once wearing someone elses eye glasses. That last one was shall we say very interesting. I do not recommend it to beginners.
     

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