American

[Mon Mon]

This post is directed to the Anti War protestors: I am fine with you protesting the war in Iraq. BUT DON'T YOU **** HEADS BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG! THAT FLAG STANDS FOR EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY STANDS FOR OUR ANCESTORS DIED FOR OUR FREEDOM BURNING THE FLAG IN A PROEST IS VERY DISRESPECTFUL! IF YOU DO BURN IT THEN YOU ARE DESTROYING THE SYMBOL OF OUR WAY OF LIFE. IF YOU DO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG YOU ARE A DIRTY PIG!

Remember Terrorists Burn the American Flag in their protests so what dose that action show what kind of person you are? What would your grandparents who were in WW2 think if you burned the Amercan Flag.


:soapbox:

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Mon Mon
This post is directed to the Anti War protestors: I am fine with you protesting the war in Iraq. BUT DON'T YOU **** HEADS BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG! THAT FLAG STANDS FOR EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY STANDS FOR OUR ANCESTORS DIED FOR OUR FREEDOM BURNING THE FLAG IN A PROEST IS VERY DISRESPECTFUL! IF YOU DO BURN IT THEN YOU ARE DESTROYING THE SYMBOL OF OUR WAY OF LIFE. IF YOU DO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG YOU ARE A DIRTY PIG!

Remember Terrorists Burn the American Flag in their protests so what dose that action show what kind of person you are? What would your grandparents who were in WW2 think if you burned the Amercan Flag.


:soapbox:

Agree with what your saying.....but I think ya need to calm down and say it in a nicer manner. Shouting didnt get no one no where :asian:

 

[Angus]

For the same reason that you have the right to protest against what they do, they have the right to protest whatever and however (nonviolently) that they'd like. It's their right.

I don't agree with burning it, but it's certainly their right to do whatever they'd like.

 

[Jill666]

I agree anyone has the right to burn the flag- BUT I hate it anyway. Is that rational? No. I know that, but the flag is a powerful symbol, and in a way very sacred to me.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Jill666
I agree anyone has the right to burn the flag- BUT I hate it anyway. Is that rational? No. I know that, but the flag is a powerful symbol, and in a way very sacred to me.

"One mans trash is another mans treasure"......Guess it works opposite as well

 

[Angus]

I'm not a practitioner of it either, but take away their right to do so and we're no better than the people we're supposedly warring with to stop.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I live here in the States, "The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave". I served in our military so that people could maintain their freedoms, including freedom of speech. I know that may sound pollyanish, and during these times jingoistic to some, but, as much as I feel offended by some of their actions, they're still entitled to voice their opinion... :shrug:

 

[karatekid1975]

Originally posted by Angus
For the same reason that you have the right to protest against what they do, they have the right to protest whatever and however (nonviolently) that they'd like. It's their right.

I don't agree with burning it, but it's certainly their right to do whatever they'd like.

Non-violently??? What? Look at the news. Those protestors are nuts! They are protesting war. Fine. They have a right. BUT if you protest war, why are they setting fire to things, beating people up, and distroying property? If you don't want war, why not protest peacefully? With them acting like they are, they are no better than the war itself. Think about it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --Voltaire

The problem with freedom of speech is you must be prepared to defend someone elses right to say that which you find yourself against.

I do not agree either with the protesters burning of the flag, but I will defend their right to do so.

People who have read my previous posts on the conflict in Iraq know I am against it. But, my personal disagreement with the possible reasons for this situation must take a back seat to my desire for a speedy resolution, and a mininimal loss of life and injury to all sides of the conflict.

Regardless of if you are for or against the Iraq campaign, please, send your support to the men and women in the field.
:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

1 other point... I do NOT agree with some of their tactics. There is NO reason for a violent protest, and both the protesters and the police confronting them are crossing the lines between acceptable and not-acceptable behavior.

Do it peacefully folks, or else you invalidate your whole argument...Ghandi made great points, without having to resort to throwing a single punch. You can do worse than follow his lead.

Peace.
:asian:

 

[Elfan]

Dude its just a peice of cloth, it can't hold all the ideals on which America was founded within it.


karatekid1975,
I was unable to find reports of any of the violent incidents of which you speak. Can you cite any articles?

 

[karatekid1975]

Elfan wrote:

Dude its just a peice of cloth, it can't hold all the ideals on which America was founded within it.

karatekid1975,
I was unable to find reports of any of the violent incidents of which you speak. Can you cite any articles?

Are you American?????

Anyways, turn on CNN or any news channel. Watch for reports of protests. You'll see.

Agreed, Kaith. No one likes war. But if we do nothing, this idiot is going to keep on killing. He has killed millions of his own people .... innocent people. Not to mention all the other people he has killed under his power. I think he would kill many more if we do nothing, than with both this war, and Desert Storm put together. We did give him a chance to disarm peacefully many times. He didn't. If he keeps those weapons, he could kill many more millions.

This is just my opinion, though. I'm not dissing anyone for their opinions. You, like anyone else, has a right. Just give the troops suport. They have done a awsome job thus far with minimal lose of life. My heart and prayers go out to those families who did lose loved ones. :asian: God Bless.

 

[Matt Stone]

First -

While I am sickened, repulsed and violently enraged when someone voices their opinion in time of war with contradictory and inflammatory statements which display their lack of solidarity with the Government and troops, I am also empowered with the truth and righteousness of our ideology and culture knowing that the sacrifices made by soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines worldwide are demonstrated... By our sacrifice they are enabled to be vocal, no matter how wrong they may be in their thinking... (*I mean that with a little bit of sarcasm, don't flame me*)

Second -

The flag is[/I] just a piece of cloth, sure. But it is also much, much more than that. It is a living symbol, a physical embodiment of the beliefs, ideas and history of what our country stands for and tries to uphold in the world community. By burning it and desecrating it in other ways, "protesters" show only their disrespect and lack of allegiance to the country that provides them with the freedom to express their beliefs, no matter how wrong they are in their thinking... (*again, I mean that with a touch of sarcasm*)

Third -

These tree-hugging, bead-wearing, crystal-carrying neo-hippies fail to see the larger picture... Other countries against whom we may be fighting can use those rather interesting vid clips against us as propaganda by showing their poorly educated and information starved people the division within our country and showing it to be evidence of the inherent wrongness of whatever it is they dislike (our lifestyle, politics, whatever...).

I guess it is just a maturity thing... Most of the protesters I have seen on TV have been quite youngish - idealistic college students, inexperienced high school kids, etc. They lack the worldliness that allows for greater understanding. They demonstrate believing the Government is going to revoke all the troop movements, all the political statements and maneuvering, all because some idealists lay down in a few street intersections and screw up traffic. Right. If they really want to effect change, they can take a more active role in political elections. Although, based on numbers over the last few years, their age groups are one of the least represented in the polls...

Lastly -

I have to agree with what Mr. Heinlein wrote in Starship Troopers... The belief that anyone who has not actually sacrificed on behalf of the body politic has no reason whatsoever to either complain about what the governing body does, or to possess the power to vote. Giving that power, and it really is a powerful possession, without having made a sacrifice for it is like putting a pistol in the hands of a toddler... Dangerous, not because of inherent violent power, but due mainly to the lack of experience and understanding on the part of the wielder.

If folks really think we are so wrong, they need to read this thread I found over at E-budo here.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Angus]

Originally posted by karatekid1975
Non-violently??? What? Look at the news. Those protestors are nuts! They are protesting war. Fine. They have a right. BUT if you protest war, why are they setting fire to things, beating people up, and distroying property? If you don't want war, why not protest peacefully? With them acting like they are, they are no better than the war itself. Think about it.

No need to preach to me, I'm on your side. However, very very little of the protesting I've heard about is violent. The way you phrased it you've made it sound as though all protests are violent, and this is not the case. The ones that are get punished; simple as that. I'm not defending them, just the ones who are protesting non-violently (which, at least here, is pretty much everyone).

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by karatekid1975

karatekid1975,

This is just my opinion, though. I'm not dissing anyone for their opinions. You, like anyone else, has a right. Just give the troops suport. They have done a awsome job thus far with minimal lose of life. My heart and prayers go out to those families who did lose loved ones. :asian: God Bless.

Right! That's why we, the vets formally in the military served, and why the young kids now in the military are currently serving. That is to maintain our freedom of choice. Irrespective of geopolitics, I stand by the young men and women currently in Harm's Way... :asian:

I'm former US military so maybe I'm baised... :shrug:

 

[Nightingale]

the flag is just a piece of cloth the same way our martial arts belts are just pieces of cloth... its the meaning we attach to them that's important.

Some Americans burn the flag because they feel betrayed by what their government is doing. They have a constitutional right to do so. That doesn't mean that we have to like it, but it does mean that we have to tolerate it.

Personally, I'm against the war as a concept, but I feel that now that we're in, we'd do more damage if we just up and left rather than finishing what we've started. I support our troops over there and have several friends over there.

Disagreeing with the government is not unpatriotic... in fact, its rather an American tradition. LOL. This country was founded on a major disagreement with the government at the time, and we've continued the tradition since then.

 

[sweeper]

Just because someone burns the flag doesn't mean they are a dirty pig, it just means they have a diffrent perspective.

Some people just want to make a statement, get your attention, for those people the flag doesn't hold alot of value, it's just an inanimate object.

For others it odes represent the country and everything it has sttod for. For them they are saying that the action we are undertaking IS like burning the flag, and for all your spite of their action, their perspective is the same of our nations action.

yelling on a board realy isn't going to help any, but I would encourage eryone in any argument to look at the issue from the perspective of their opponant.

Personaly I tihnk what makes this nation so great is freedom. As long as we can burn the flag this nation is great, and for that reason it doesn't directly bother me. How it does bother me though is that it did greatly upset my grandfather who was a WWII vetran (though I don't think it as greatly upsets my other grandfather who is also a vet). Everyone takes it diffrent, and I just think if you are going to take what is viewed as an extreem action you have to be aware of the probable and posable results.. in other words you burn a flag and ALOT of people are gona get pissed.

 

[yilisifu]

Seems to me that these protesters are simply following in the footsteps of their anti-VietNam era ancestors...doing a lot of the same kinds of things.

It's one thing to protest. It's another to desecrate the American flag.

Try protesting against Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The reason these people CAN protest is because other Americans spilled their blood and gave their lives to uphold and protect their right to do so. They should remember that.

When the Twin Towers were attacked, I didn't notice any of these people rushing over to Afghanistan to protest against Bin Laden.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by yilisifu


When the Twin Towers were attacked, I didn't notice any of these people rushing over to Afghanistan to protest against Bin Laden.

Well said. Protesting on the whole I dont mind....but as some people have said you have to be able to respect the others right to freedom of speech and how they feel. My only problem with that is that by burning the flag THEY ARE NOT SHOWING THE SAME RESPECT BACK! I dont mind peaceful protesting.....but I really cannot stand when people sit down in the middle of roads and stop loads of people from their daily lives JUST because they think that maybe if they stop the car and make it honk its horn then that person is gonna think "Hey Im gonna go stop the war!". Some students tried this outside my school.....They stopped a van in the middle of the road and started bashing on the side because it wouldnt honk. The driver ended up getting out, punching a kid who was swearing at him and then going and getting a spade from the back of the van. You can guess the rest.... I think this kinda way of protesting and trying to enforce your ideals towards people is wrong

 

[karatekid1975]

Originally posted by yilisifu
Seems to me that these protesters are simply following in the footsteps of their anti-VietNam era ancestors...doing a lot of the same kinds of things.

It's one thing to protest. It's another to desecrate the American flag.

Try protesting against Saddam Hussein in Iraq. The reason these people CAN protest is because other Americans spilled their blood and gave their lives to uphold and protect their right to do so. They should remember that.

When the Twin Towers were attacked, I didn't notice any of these people rushing over to Afghanistan to protest against Bin Laden.

AMEN! Great post.

To others, I wasn't saying ALL protests are wrong. Just the way these protestors are going about it is wrong. Why protest violence when they themselves are distructive. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Everyone has the right to protest. BUT there are peaceful ways to do so.

To me (my dad is a vet), to burn the flag is disrespect to your country. It bothers me when someone burns the flag.

I stand behind our troops, even the vets who fought/fight for our country :asian: