Aikido against a boxer

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by samurai69, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. MartialIntent

    MartialIntent Black Belt

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    I live and love Aikido but there's little doubt, it doesn't mirror our most primal of fighting styles ie. striking for offense and having hands up guarding the head for defense. And I think these natural tendencies during unfamiliar non-Aikido bouts is the hardest thing to drill out of ourselves if we've come to Aikido with some understanding of other strike-based arts.

    Problem for me is when I practice Aikido, I like to try to maintain something of the integrity of the movements despite my training in other arts and that natural prediliction for their use when sparring non-aikidoka. Sure I know step-through side kicks and whatnot - most of us do - but personally, when I try to lead into a shomen-uchi with a one-knuckle fist [hehe!] I generally end up with neither one thing nor the other, my attack ultimately concluding in a weaker diluted state than what it might have been on sticking to the original.

    I think crosss-training and taking multiple arts can only be a good thing but in terms of modifying specific techniques, I feel that's where it has a tendency to go belly-up. But that's just in my personal experience.

    For what it's worth, I found that the one element of cross-training that brought me most gains [with specific reference to boxing-type opponents] was speedwork - training to stay up on the balls of the feet so as to maximise forward and retreat movements; practising the side-to-side movements as well as the circular; and my favorite, the repeated stance switches - I enjoy doing this anyway but it adds an extra dimension to your overall defensive proposition when sparring a boxer.

    And as I mentioned in a previous post, the very nature of the boxer's in and out style, if picked up upon, can I've found, be utilized with some natural atemi to break his or her balance.

    Let me know what works for you - I'm always interested in taking on board useable supplementary training or knowledge!

    Oh, and agree with Hand Sword - boxing ain't for the aikidoka! But we have other ways and means! Hehe!! ;)

    Respects!
     
  2. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    I agree totally, i have 2 new students both with a base in kempo and they are finding it difficult to "drill out" (possibly not the right expression of what i mean) the stances and basic defences from that style.

    even when i teach my self defence specific classes this can still be a problem, when you are trying to appear less combative whilst trying to de-escalate a situation.

    Thats really what caused the question to be raised, as i too like to keep my aikido, aikido specific.

    I agree, modifying specific techniques, can cause some problems.

    Yep, makes sense

    Will certainly do that

    :) :)
     
  3. Buddha1

    Buddha1 Yellow Belt

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    I've got a short video of a demonstration which shows an Aikidoist fighting a boxer. Anyone want to see it?
     
  4. Hand Sword

    Hand Sword Grandmaster

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    Cool! Let's have it.
     
  5. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    Post it up :) :ultracool
     
  6. Buddha1

    Buddha1 Yellow Belt

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    I'll post it up when I get home. It's very short but it emphasises the 'wait for the cross' method that would be essential in a fight between an Aikidoka and a boxer.
     
  7. Hand Sword

    Hand Sword Grandmaster

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    Thanks. That will be cool to see. Good advice too. The jab moves too fast to try to go into a technique. (not impossible, but very tough to do) In that situation, you probably should wait for the cross.
     
  8. Ceicei

    Ceicei Grandmaster

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    That'll be interesting! Still waiting... :uhyeah:

    - Ceicei
     
  9. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    Bump for that..........................again:)
     
  10. MartialIntent

    MartialIntent Black Belt

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    I've been scouring the net after I read this but can't find anything like this. Plenty of Aikido vs Karate but we've seen all that before. aikido vs boxer is worth seeing. I'm in suspenders waiting for it, hehe!

    Seriously, I'm keen to see what the aikidoka does while he's "waiting" for the cross. I'm also keen to see what he does to evade rapid direct strikes.

    Or maybe this footage is just an urban myth. Hehe.

    Respects!
     
  11. merc

    merc White Belt

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    Because of the nature of boxing in general, quick foot movement is essential to this art, thus the ability to root and maintain a strong sense of balance is constantly of utmost demand in combat. If a good Aikido stylist maintains optinum range to his opponent, being a boxer and taking into consideration other possible training they may have had in the past, it is my opinion that he would ulitmately over extend his jab or right cross. A hook or upper cut should never come into play in this scenario since long range is being maintained (street scenario) de-escelation of force and target denial principles. Thus the Aikido stylist should use "irmi" to divert his forward attack off it central line, control his lead hand and maintain control of his head giving the ability to easily throw this person by over power his balance points.

    "Just do what you have been trained to do, show them what you know, don't wait to find out what they know."
    MERC
     
  12. AdrenalineJunky

    AdrenalineJunky Black Belt

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    Is the opinion of a boxer welcome? :D
     
  13. Dark

    Dark Purple Belt

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    On Jabs don't worry they aren't their to attack you but feel out your defense, your raction time, reflexes, speed, openings, telegraphs stuff of that nature. As for the in and out style, forget it two easy counters, move around or with and always change your pattern when you attack. Say I step forward step either back or two the side, a real good trick I picked up from a boxer was when they step into strike step back, once, twice and on the third time side step and counter.

    You won't beat a boxer unless you can pick up three things, their rythem, their pattern and their angle. The rythem is of course the "bounce rythim" of their foot work, pattern is they strike at you; few boxer strike out hard on the go instead fighting with a 1-1-2 pattern instead of 1-2 (lead-reverse) pattern of hitting. Angle is the hardest to pick up on, it the "tilt" mark, allot of boxers with jab from the front, hook from the sides and then others will try to circle you. A real good boxer will try all three until they find the easiest way to punch you and work that angle.

    Once you figure out these three you can watch and wait and when that commited attack comes apply whatever Aikido method seems best.
     
  14. spinkick

    spinkick Yellow Belt

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    Luckily I wont be fighting Mike tyson anytime soon, so until I meet a boxer who is actually big and bad enough for me to be really worried about I'll solve this problem by using my legs against his arms... considering their longer and stronger then his arms.. unless he has gorilla arms
     
  15. Hand Sword

    Hand Sword Grandmaster

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    First, generally, Aikidoka don't really "kick" so that is not releveant to this thread's question. Second, judging by your statement you have never fought with a boxer of any sort before. Believe me, you won't be able to kick fast enough in succession. Also, as boxers are "turtled up", and have fast footwork, kicks alone, stronger or not, won't do.
     
  16. Robert Lee

    Robert Lee Brown Belt

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    Legs are easy to take away when you have good hands As all you do is get inside to the punching range. Far as the boxer. The boxing hands are about the best hands out there. Because they really train them for real use. Far as Aikido a boxer will close the range for sure. If your good enough youmay do ok. if not the boxer will get the hits in. It is about skill NOT art. the better fighter that day allways comes out on top.
     
  17. spinkick

    spinkick Yellow Belt

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    sorry I didn't realize that we were limiting ourselves to one art..... I'm a hapkido and Hankido (very similar to aiikido) man..... So Kicking is an integrated part of my training and I didn't even think about it not being in Aikido that owuld just be my reaction. I didnt say you had to kick him where his hands could block it, a side kick to the knee would be pretty effective?
     
  18. Robert Lee

    Robert Lee Brown Belt

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    A low kick can work But agin it is the better fighter that day. And what people do not do because they are in a M/A art they do not give the boxer the credit they deserve. Fact is most boxers are better fighters then many M/A people are . Just because they really learn to use there tools. Plus being a boxer you can still do othere things kick grapple and such if need be. What I am saying Posting what a person can do well its not getting anything done. In any fight its that time you do what you do. Sure other people can see what you can do but You the person can only do what you do. I have known people that have boxed only then decided to go into kick boxing And in just a few short months get in the ring and win over people that have kick boxed for years. Skill and effcetive use of what you know overides any M/A ranking a good white belt that can fight can go out a come out on top of a blackbelt if his fighting skill and heart allows him to out perform the other. Aikido while it works really depends on the higher skill level to go aginst a boxer that has any skill at all. Thats not saying Aikdo does not work. You just have to train it long enough to become very good at it. And understand its never on the streets like it is in the Dojo where poeople work with you.
     
  19. tempus

    tempus Green Belt

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    Fighting against a boxer is tough. Even if you do not want to mention it, I will. In my NGA class we played around with fighting against a boxer and what we found worked the best was to dive right in on the jab as it goes back, along with parrying the jab if you have to, or a kick to the knee.
     
  20. jasonriverajasonrivera

    jasonriverajasonrivera White Belt

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    I'm a amateur boxer and I have some close friends who are into Aikido since they were kids.
    We always spar when they visit me at my home. I totally respect their dedication but I must say, it will never work against a boxers who have been in the ring.
    They always end up giving up during the fight. All I use against them are quick jobs while circling around. I have a fairly long reach so I don't really have a problem hitting them.
    The problem with Aikido practioners is that they're not used to dealing with people who know how to punch really good! They tend to over react even to a very simple feint. This shows that they are very afraid of getting hit.
    And this is usually where my friends end up eating the leather.
    One great quality of a boxer is that we already have a plan before we step into the ring and we study our opponents from start to the end of the fight.
    After few hits to their faces their eyes are teary and that's one indication they are already feeling those leather.123
     

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