A thought about philosophy in the martial arts.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Spirituality in the Arts' started by PhotonGuy, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143

    I agree with Drop Bear. Technical skill itself I don't see as enough for promotion, but if a student develops technical skill in the process they should develop all the other necessary attributes. It takes time to develop technical skill so if a student has developed technical skill it shows that they're patient. And belts aren't everything but a student that works hard does deserve them. And there is nothing wrong with talking to your sensei about something if you don't understand it.
     
  2. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143
    OK I agree with you on that. But it never hurts to be efficient.
     
  3. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,514
    Likes Received:
    1,972
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Actually -- that leads to what might be a good analogy. The Couch to 5K program is designed to take someone from literally zero running to doing a 5K in 9 weeks. If you double up the daily stages, you likely won't be able to run a 5K in 4.5 weeks; you'll stand a really good chance of suffering an injury and needing several months to recover before you can run a 5K.

    Photonguy -- you seem to be really goal focused, and that's not a bad thing. But it can lead to missing things, and if you're focused on the wrong goals, you might not get where you want to be. And, if you're too focused on the goal, you just might miss something along the way.
     
  4. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,514
    Likes Received:
    1,972
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Who has said you shouldn't talk to your teachers and coaches?
     
  5. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Trying to run a 5K in 4.5 weeks as opposed to the 9 weeks the program says it will take would probably not be possible for most people and most likely would result in an injury. But that doesn't mean somebody who works a bit harder and does a bit more than what the program says won't be able to run the 5K in less time than 9 weeks, a person who pushes themselves harder might be able to do it in 8 weeks. And sometimes there is good reason to be goal focused and wanting to get to your goal in less time than it would ordinarily take. I once knew this girl in college who was taking almost twice as many classes as most people because she wanted to get her degree in two years as opposed to the standard four years it takes.
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,374
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Trophy Points:
    308
    We have taken people off the couch and put them in the ring in twelve weeks.

    But otherwise I would have to see the programming. I am thinking you could do a swim or a weights or even a bodyweight on top of that and get benefits.

    The Couch-to-5K ® Running Plan | C25K Mobile App

    Yeah that looks like stuff all.
     
  7. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,490
    Likes Received:
    6,024
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    I don't know anything about running miles. I don't know anything about guitars. What philosophies I've learned have all come from Martial Arts. I listen to those who have a certain mastery of their Art(s) over those who have yet to attain that.

    I consider them Philosoraptors.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143
    There's been people on this board who've said you should just "shut up and train," and while that does have its place such as during drill work, there is nothing wrong with asking questions during breaks or after class.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,514
    Likes Received:
    1,972
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    And you have been told, in conjunction with that advice, that there are times and places for questions. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if you read past the first sentence in a reply...

    But what does that have to do with your initial idea here?
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,143
    Likes Received:
    3,781
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    And it remains excellent advice. It's pretty silly to think that such a statement means you should never talk or ask questions. And even sillier to think that anybody here meant it in such a way.

    I'm trying to remember... being excessively literal minded is a symptom of something...
     
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,374
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Lol.

    That was me.

    Shut up and train falls directly into the principles of goal focused training.

    Maybe a terry Pratchett's quote will be more applicable.

    [h=1]“Miss Tick sniffed. 'You could say this advice is priceless,' she said. 'Are you listening?'
    'Yes,' said Tiffany.
    'Good. Now ... if you trust in yourself ...'
    'Yes?'
    '... and believe in your dreams ...'
    'Yes?'
    '... and follow your star ...' Miss Tick went on.
    'Yes?'
    '... you'll still get beaten by people who spent THEIR time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye.”[/h]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    606
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Questions are good, it's better to ask a question and learn something the hard way then to never have learned it at all. As long as it's on TOPIC, NOT INTERESTING THE TEACHER when he or she is talking, or another bad question is when you ask a question that was just answered. Gonna be getting be getting some frightening looks from the instructor when that happens... But sometimes when you stay quiet and train sometimes the instructor will answer it or demonstrate it.

    @drop bear what does that quote means?
     
  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,374
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Trophy Points:
    308
    The terry Pratchett's one?
     
  14. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Some people have said that but there have been other people who have said that questions should be rarely if ever asked.
     
  15. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Provide quotes to show this, please.
     
  16. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,345
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    143
    I don't remember you saying that, I particularly remember other people saying that. You might've said it, about shutting up and training, but there are some viewpoints expressed on these boards that students should hardly ever ask questions, even during breaks in between drills or before or after class. Basically, that a sensei should be a military DI.
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,374
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Trophy Points:
    308

    Depends on the coach and the questions.
     
  18. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,143
    Likes Received:
    3,781
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    :bs:

    I'm going to hoist the BS flag now. I do not believe that anybody here has said anything of the sort.
    I'd like to see some quotes to support this claim, or a retraction.
     
  19. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    13,461
    Likes Received:
    730
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Athol, Ma. USA
    some people still look at a martial arts instructor as some great spiritual all knowing person. These people will ask all sorts of questions of the instructor . If asked before or after a class I see little problem with it or with the answer "how the hell should I know".
    Some people need guidance on a particular issue that may be related to violence, bullying,etc. Those question can and perhaps should be answered by the instructor if he has the knowledge and is a responsible enough person to answer intelligently. Once again they should be addressed before ofr after class unless they relate directly to the class at that time.
    Questions about religion should be addressed after or before class or not at all unless the instructor is ordained or a monk.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indonesia
    To my limited understanding of this thread, everybody agree that training hard is good, just how hard it is that still disputed in accordance of understanding.
    Perfect technique execution is not equal to perfect understanding of the technique.
    Now rushing the training may not makes you faster understood of the technique concept, because it is of mind, sometimes you just need to sleep on it after exhausting in technique rolling and asking question.
    How fast is it? Depends on persons, some can get faster some took a time, the external factor that catalysing it are instructors, training mates and methodology.
    You just need to find the most effective and efficient spot between cost and benefit.
    Back to analogy in running, what if it is like this:
    The instructor give you a task to go from point A to point B, and to count how many tiles in side walk is missing.
    I believe you'll adjust your speed accordingly.
    Now the question is, how many instructors would give a hint of counting the tiles instead of just ordered you to move from point A to point B?
    Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page